Red Mosquito

I'm more excited about KAT than I am about Butler, but this is a huge upgrade for the Wolves. I don't care if they aren't a serious league championship contender yet, this is better than they've been since Garnett was in MN. They also have potentially $20M available for free agents this off season. Rubio is an elite passer and a well above average defender, Wiggins has the ability to be a great scorer and potentially an All Star, KAT is on the verge of being a top 10 player in the league, and Butler is probably already top 15ish. This franchise just became relevant for the first time in nearly 15 years. As a fan, I'm excited.

Yeah it makes them better, for sure. Butler thinks he's the point God though. Rubio will need to assert his dominance by pulling out his giant Spanish dick or something. Jimmy is a good player but his All NBA status was earned this year through dominating the ball on a bad team and shooting lots of free throws. If this is really going to work he is going to have to go back to doing more work off the ball like he did before he knew Mark Wahlberg.

I totally get with where you are coming from, verb. And Butler's reality as a player is somewhere in between your current negative view of him, and my positive one. In reality, Butler will need to share the stage with KAT, and will soon have to be the Pippen to his Jordan (admittedly a stretch, but you get what I mean).

If that duo gets the best out of themselves and Wiggins can consistently provide high scoring, Rubio is the perfect guy to set them all up. He doesn't even want to score and he's an elite passer. But Butler will definitely have to find his place in there. He is a huge upgrade on defense, a place the Wolves desperately needed an upgrade, and I think he may inspire more effort out of Wiggins on that end of the floor. Wiggins was projected as a high level defender coming out of college, so that part of his game may come.

Gorgui Dieng is a nice player at Center. A solid defender with a little range on the offensive end, but he's probably better suited off the bench than starting on an elite contender. Shabazz Muhammad can provide an offensive spark off the bench, and Tyus Jones is a serviceable backup PG. The rest of the bench is weak, so there is definitely work to be done. But the Wolves still have the offseason and $10-20M in cap space, so there can and will be additions to the roster.

The potential is there to be a top 4 seed in the next 2-4 years if all goes well. That's a lot of "ifs", but it isn't unimaginable. LaVine and Dunn weren't going to help the Wolves reach that level. I love LaVine, and I think he could be a really good scorer. He has a killer instinct and a developing solid 3-point shot, and his athleticism and quickness is incredible. But he plays no D, and doesn't rebound. Dunn is a mystery. He could be good, but it's more likely that he just becomes an average backup player.

I'm interested to see what other roster moves the Wolves make in the coming months. Three point shooting has to be the number one need now.

I'd like to see Aldridge go. Super timid on the offensive end, a mediocre defender and shit rim protector. He clearly needs to be Option 1 on offense and that ain't gonna happen with Kawhi's development at that end of the court.

He's a frustrating player to me. He's got the skills and athleticism to be great in today's NBA. He should be a great passer, move well without the ball, create against the players his own size, protect the lane on defense, rebound and outlet. But he hasn't done that shit with the Spurs. He takes waaaaaaaay too many mid-range jumpers, is a mediocre passer and has just been awkward AF on D. He's not a bad player, he's just been a poor fit. I can see why Pop thought it would work. Aldridge is a nice dude and says all the right things, but...


Send him packing.

PHATJ wrote:I totally get with where you are coming from, verb. And Butler's reality as a player is somewhere in between your current negative view of him, and my positive one. In reality, Butler will need to share the stage with KAT, and will soon have to be the Pippen to his Jordan (admittedly a stretch, but you get what I mean).

If that duo gets the best out of themselves and Wiggins can consistently provide high scoring, Rubio is the perfect guy to set them all up. He doesn't even want to score and he's an elite passer. But Butler will definitely have to find his place in there. He is a huge upgrade on defense, a place the Wolves desperately needed an upgrade, and I think he may inspire more effort out of Wiggins on that end of the floor. Wiggins was projected as a high level defender coming out of college, so that part of his game may come.

Gorgui Dieng is a nice player at Center. A solid defender with a little range on the offensive end, but he's probably better suited off the bench than starting on an elite contender. Shabazz Muhammad can provide an offensive spark off the bench, and Tyus Jones is a serviceable backup PG. The rest of the bench is weak, so there is definitely work to be done. But the Wolves still have the offseason and $10-20M in cap space, so there can and will be additions to the roster.

The potential is there to be a top 4 seed in the next 2-4 years if all goes well. That's a lot of "ifs", but it isn't unimaginable. LaVine and Dunn weren't going to help the Wolves reach that level. I love LaVine, and I think he could be a really good scorer. He has a killer instinct and a developing solid 3-point shot, and his athleticism and quickness is incredible. But he plays no D, and doesn't rebound. Dunn is a mystery. He could be good, but it's more likely that he just becomes an average backup player.

I'm interested to see what other roster moves the Wolves make in the coming months. Three point shooting has to be the number one need now.

Not to mention, Lavine is going to fetch a pretty hefty contract extension next year. I wouldn't be surprised if his new deal is only a little less than Butler's current contract and there is no comparison between the two in terms of talent/production.

Yeah I think the T Wolves did really well for themselves on that deal. It's hard to imagine that Chicago couldn't have done better than that. Or conversely, I guess Boston really didn't want Butler.

Monkey_Driven wrote:

PHATJ wrote:I totally get with where you are coming from, verb. And Butler's reality as a player is somewhere in between your current negative view of him, and my positive one. In reality, Butler will need to share the stage with KAT, and will soon have to be the Pippen to his Jordan (admittedly a stretch, but you get what I mean).

If that duo gets the best out of themselves and Wiggins can consistently provide high scoring, Rubio is the perfect guy to set them all up. He doesn't even want to score and he's an elite passer. But Butler will definitely have to find his place in there. He is a huge upgrade on defense, a place the Wolves desperately needed an upgrade, and I think he may inspire more effort out of Wiggins on that end of the floor. Wiggins was projected as a high level defender coming out of college, so that part of his game may come.

Gorgui Dieng is a nice player at Center. A solid defender with a little range on the offensive end, but he's probably better suited off the bench than starting on an elite contender. Shabazz Muhammad can provide an offensive spark off the bench, and Tyus Jones is a serviceable backup PG. The rest of the bench is weak, so there is definitely work to be done. But the Wolves still have the offseason and $10-20M in cap space, so there can and will be additions to the roster.

The potential is there to be a top 4 seed in the next 2-4 years if all goes well. That's a lot of "ifs", but it isn't unimaginable. LaVine and Dunn weren't going to help the Wolves reach that level. I love LaVine, and I think he could be a really good scorer. He has a killer instinct and a developing solid 3-point shot, and his athleticism and quickness is incredible. But he plays no D, and doesn't rebound. Dunn is a mystery. He could be good, but it's more likely that he just becomes an average backup player.

I'm interested to see what other roster moves the Wolves make in the coming months. Three point shooting has to be the number one need now.

Not to mention, Lavine is going to fetch a pretty hefty contract extension next year. I wouldn't be surprised if his new deal is only a little less than Butler's current contract and there is no comparison between the two in terms of talent/production.

Correct. Good point.

The league and smart Bulls fans don't value Jimmy Butler as much as casual fans or outsiders do. He's a good player, but if he was a difference maker don't you think Boston would have put together a better deal. I thought the Bulls could have gotten a better deal but the important thing is deciding to tank. Dumb Bulls fans lost in their fee fees over Jimmy don't get how much being an 8 seed over the next 2 years would set the team back.

Don't get the Lavine Butler contract comparison at all. Lavine is coming off an ACL and will have limited production this season. If the Bulls want to match whatever offer he gets from another team I doubt it breaks the bank. Butler on the other hand is going to command a huge contract and be a 30 year old who still hasn't won anything as the best player on a team.

verb_to_trust wrote:The league and smart Bulls fans don't value Jimmy Butler as much as casual fans or outsiders do. He's a good player, but if he was a difference maker don't you think Boston would have put together a better deal. I thought the Bulls could have gotten a better deal but the important thing is deciding to tank. Dumb Bulls fans lost in their fee fees over Jimmy don't get how much being an 8 seed over the next 2 years would set the team back.

Don't get the Lavine Butler contract comparison at all. Lavine is coming off an ACL and will have limited production this season. If the Bulls want to match whatever offer he gets from another team I doubt it breaks the bank. Butler on the other hand is going to command a huge contract and be a 30 year old who still hasn't won anything as the best player on a team.

I wasn't talking about Butler's next deal.

Also, Towns might be the best player on the team now. Will definitely be in the next year or two.

Monkey_Driven wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:The league and smart Bulls fans don't value Jimmy Butler as much as casual fans or outsiders do. He's a good player, but if he was a difference maker don't you think Boston would have put together a better deal. I thought the Bulls could have gotten a better deal but the important thing is deciding to tank. Dumb Bulls fans lost in their fee fees over Jimmy don't get how much being an 8 seed over the next 2 years would set the team back.

Don't get the Lavine Butler contract comparison at all. Lavine is coming off an ACL and will have limited production this season. If the Bulls want to match whatever offer he gets from another team I doubt it breaks the bank. Butler on the other hand is going to command a huge contract and be a 30 year old who still hasn't won anything as the best player on a team.

I wasn't talking about Butler's next deal.

Well the alternative for the Bulls in not getting Lavine would have been keeping Butler and paying him $200 million. If lavine looks okay next year it will make way more sense to match any RFA offer for him than it would have to pay that kind of money a very good player masquerading as an All NBA player because he stat stuffed and dominated the ball on a bad team who is already at or maybe even past his peak.

verb_to_trust wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:The league and smart Bulls fans don't value Jimmy Butler as much as casual fans or outsiders do. He's a good player, but if he was a difference maker don't you think Boston would have put together a better deal. I thought the Bulls could have gotten a better deal but the important thing is deciding to tank. Dumb Bulls fans lost in their fee fees over Jimmy don't get how much being an 8 seed over the next 2 years would set the team back.

Don't get the Lavine Butler contract comparison at all. Lavine is coming off an ACL and will have limited production this season. If the Bulls want to match whatever offer he gets from another team I doubt it breaks the bank. Butler on the other hand is going to command a huge contract and be a 30 year old who still hasn't won anything as the best player on a team.

I wasn't talking about Butler's next deal.

Well the alternative for the Bulls in not getting Lavine would have been keeping Butler and paying him $200 million. If lavine looks okay next year it will make way more sense to match any RFA offer for him than it would have to pay that kind of money a very good player masquerading as an All NBA player because he stat stuffed and dominated the ball on a bad team who is already at or maybe even past his peak.

I don't think it is as bad of a deal for the Bulls as many are saying. I totally get them not wanting to pay Butler that much.

I just don't think the Wolves wanted to commit to Lavine for 15-18 million a year in addition to upcoming extensions for Wiggins and Towns. He's just not worth that much for them (and you're kidding yourself if you think he's going to get less than that). Butler won't have to run the show in Minny.

Butler will want to run the show in Minny though

verb_to_trust wrote:Butler will want to run the show in Minny though

I think he respects Thibs enough to give it a sporting chance. What would you say about this deal if you didn't have the baggage of your Bulls fandom?

lol

That's great.

4/5 wrote:Yeah I think the T Wolves did really well for themselves on that deal. It's hard to imagine that Chicago couldn't have done better than that. Or conversely, I guess Boston really didn't want Butler.

So who does Boston want?

Monkey_Driven wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Butler will want to run the show in Minny though

I think he respects Thibs enough to give it a sporting chance. What would you say about this deal if you didn't have the baggage of your Bulls fandom?

Nothing really matters in 2017 NBA.

verb_to_trust wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Butler will want to run the show in Minny though

I think he respects Thibs enough to give it a sporting chance. What would you say about this deal if you didn't have the baggage of your Bulls fandom?

Nothing really matters in 2017 NBA.

I knew it would come back to this.

Electromatic wrote:

4/5 wrote:Yeah I think the T Wolves did really well for themselves on that deal. It's hard to imagine that Chicago couldn't have done better than that. Or conversely, I guess Boston really didn't want Butler.

So who does Boston want?

Danny's too much of a pussy to part with the assets. He's gotten comfortable being the guy with a bunch of future picks who just kicks the can down the road. He gets credit for the big three but he hasn't done anything since but create this weird illusion of future dominance. It will never come.