Red Mosquito

Strat wrote:

epilogue wrote:

bada wrote:

epilogue wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:They were very much confined by what hey had of Carrie there. Be fair.

Exactly. Given what they chose to do and what they had to work with I think what they delivered was pretty great. And it meant that fans got Carrie as Leia one last time.

Very true it was their choice. Carrie died when they still had plenty of time to rework the Last Jedi so Luke lived and Leia died. Instead they stuck with it and made a dead actor a major part of the next film. They put themselves in that box.

Reworking TLJ wasn't really an option. Rian had a story to tell and he was able to tell it.

The fans put them in a box. There was no right answer after Carrie died. If they recast, fans would freak. If they killed Leia off screen, fans would freak. If they pulled a Tarkin, fans would freak.

The found a creative compromise that they believed was the least of all evils. They took the limitations that choice presented and ran with it. For better or worse.

Well shit. They shouldnt be a slave to the fans. They should be a slave to their story. LIke Rian Johnson was and that is why i absolutely love last jedi.

This is why i very much dislike JJ's approach to both TFA and TROS. He's a slave to the fans and surface level star wars points.

It worked for TFA but not for Skywalker.

I agree that the story should come first. Which is why reworking TLJ is absurd.

However, I think JJ told the story he wanted to tell (the Leia compromise aside). I don't think he's a slave to fans. I think if that was true everyone wouldn't hate this movie so much.

This movie isn't the movie fans wanted. He made his movie, warts and all.

epilogue wrote:

Strat wrote:

epilogue wrote:

bada wrote:

epilogue wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:They were very much confined by what hey had of Carrie there. Be fair.

Exactly. Given what they chose to do and what they had to work with I think what they delivered was pretty great. And it meant that fans got Carrie as Leia one last time.

Very true it was their choice. Carrie died when they still had plenty of time to rework the Last Jedi so Luke lived and Leia died. Instead they stuck with it and made a dead actor a major part of the next film. They put themselves in that box.

Reworking TLJ wasn't really an option. Rian had a story to tell and he was able to tell it.

The fans put them in a box. There was no right answer after Carrie died. If they recast, fans would freak. If they killed Leia off screen, fans would freak. If they pulled a Tarkin, fans would freak.

The found a creative compromise that they believed was the least of all evils. They took the limitations that choice presented and ran with it. For better or worse.

Well shit. They shouldnt be a slave to the fans. They should be a slave to their story. LIke Rian Johnson was and that is why i absolutely love last jedi.

This is why i very much dislike JJ's approach to both TFA and TROS. He's a slave to the fans and surface level star wars points.

It worked for TFA but not for Skywalker.

I agree that the story should come first. Which is why reworking TLJ is absurd.

However, I think JJ told the story he wanted to tell (the Leia compromise aside). I don't think he's a slave to fans. I think if that was true everyone wouldn't hate this movie so much.

This movie isn't the movie fans wanted. He made his movie, warts and all.

Maybe JJ doesnt understand the fans or star wars. Maybe JJ is the MIchael Bay of star wars.

Strat wrote:LIke why didnt JJ explore the relationship Ben had with Snoke? If Palpatine were behind it all along, then perhaps a storyline discovering how palpatine was behind Snoke and how Snoke was able to manipulate ben for so long may have been the turning point for ben.

That wasn't the story he wanted to tell. Perhaps that's more interesting to you but it wasn't to him. Ben's story was about his relationship with the light side, not the dark side.

Strat wrote:

epilogue wrote:

Strat wrote:

epilogue wrote:

bada wrote:

epilogue wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:They were very much confined by what hey had of Carrie there. Be fair.

Exactly. Given what they chose to do and what they had to work with I think what they delivered was pretty great. And it meant that fans got Carrie as Leia one last time.

Very true it was their choice. Carrie died when they still had plenty of time to rework the Last Jedi so Luke lived and Leia died. Instead they stuck with it and made a dead actor a major part of the next film. They put themselves in that box.

Reworking TLJ wasn't really an option. Rian had a story to tell and he was able to tell it.

The fans put them in a box. There was no right answer after Carrie died. If they recast, fans would freak. If they killed Leia off screen, fans would freak. If they pulled a Tarkin, fans would freak.

The found a creative compromise that they believed was the least of all evils. They took the limitations that choice presented and ran with it. For better or worse.

Well shit. They shouldnt be a slave to the fans. They should be a slave to their story. LIke Rian Johnson was and that is why i absolutely love last jedi.

This is why i very much dislike JJ's approach to both TFA and TROS. He's a slave to the fans and surface level star wars points.

It worked for TFA but not for Skywalker.

I agree that the story should come first. Which is why reworking TLJ is absurd.

However, I think JJ told the story he wanted to tell (the Leia compromise aside). I don't think he's a slave to fans. I think if that was true everyone wouldn't hate this movie so much.

This movie isn't the movie fans wanted. He made his movie, warts and all.

Maybe JJ doesnt understand the fans or star wars. Maybe JJ is the MIchael Bay of star wars.

Maybe. But not really.

epilogue wrote:

Strat wrote:LIke why didnt JJ explore the relationship Ben had with Snoke? If Palpatine were behind it all along, then perhaps a storyline discovering how palpatine was behind Snoke and how Snoke was able to manipulate ben for so long may have been the turning point for ben.

That wasn't the story he wanted to tell. Perhaps that's more interesting to you but it wasn't to him. Ben's story was about his relationship with the light side, not the dark side.

Eh.....

They had a full year to recut the Last Jedi. They decided that subverting expectations and killing the past so as not to overshadow Rey was the way to go. They could have done press that Leia was always going to die and Carrie was fully on board but they stuck with Rian and KK’s vision for the franchise. Based on the future Star Wars slate they regret it but good for them for standing by their director it cost them billions. Who says Disney isn’t in it for the art?

bada wrote:They had a full year to recut the Last Jedi. They decided that subverting expectations and killing the past so as not to overshadow Rey was the way to go. They could have done press that Leia was always going to die and Carrie was fully on board but they stuck with Rian and KK’s vision for the franchise. Based on the future Star Wars slate they regret it but good for them for standing by their director it cost them billions. Who says Disney isn’t in it for the art?

That's a cynical and uninteresting take. I guess if that's where you're at then it's no wonder you're so bitter about this thing.

I love The Last Jedi so much and it gets better upon repeated viewings. If anyone ever touches it ill personally kill them and their family.

We are so far apart on these movies, it’s amazing.

epilogue wrote:

bada wrote:They had a full year to recut the Last Jedi. They decided that subverting expectations and killing the past so as not to overshadow Rey was the way to go. They could have done press that Leia was always going to die and Carrie was fully on board but they stuck with Rian and KK’s vision for the franchise. Based on the future Star Wars slate they regret it but good for them for standing by their director it cost them billions. Who says Disney isn’t in it for the art?

That's a cynical and uninteresting take. I guess if that's where you're at then it's no wonder you're so bitter about this thing.

I missed the part where Disney didn't make all the money.

Anders wrote:We are so far apart on these movies, it’s amazing.

At some point my problems with Skywalker might fade and ill be able to enjoy it as total fandom candy. I certainly had a blast in the theater. We'll see.

I think they ended up in a good place with Leia, Luke and Han after TROS. Amazing job considering what they had to work with.

Strat wrote:

Anders wrote:We are so far apart on these movies, it’s amazing.

At some point my problems with Skywalker might fade and ill be able to enjoy it as total fandom candy. I certainly had a blast in the theater. We'll see.

Hope so.

epilogue wrote:

bada wrote:They had a full year to recut the Last Jedi. They decided that subverting expectations and killing the past so as not to overshadow Rey was the way to go. They could have done press that Leia was always going to die and Carrie was fully on board but they stuck with Rian and KK’s vision for the franchise. Based on the future Star Wars slate they regret it but good for them for standing by their director it cost them billions. Who says Disney isn’t in it for the art?

That's a cynical and uninteresting take. I guess if that's where you're at then it's no wonder you're so bitter about this thing.

I'm sorry my thoughts bore you. It's not bitterness. I'm interested in the corporate direction of the franchise at the time and whether it ultimately payed off and benefited the property in the long term. Business is cynical and I think that was a major motivation. Clear the way for the new cast promote Star Wars land sell our new characters toys. If you feel it's more interesting to just say how amazing it was go for it.

bada wrote:

epilogue wrote:

bada wrote:They had a full year to recut the Last Jedi. They decided that subverting expectations and killing the past so as not to overshadow Rey was the way to go. They could have done press that Leia was always going to die and Carrie was fully on board but they stuck with Rian and KK’s vision for the franchise. Based on the future Star Wars slate they regret it but good for them for standing by their director it cost them billions. Who says Disney isn’t in it for the art?

That's a cynical and uninteresting take. I guess if that's where you're at then it's no wonder you're so bitter about this thing.

I'm sorry my thoughts bore you. It's not bitterness. I'm interested in the corporate direction of the franchise at the time and whether it ultimately payed off and benefited the property in the long term. Business is cynical and I think that was a major motivation. Clear the way for the new cast and promote Star Wars land sell our new characters toys. If you feel it's more interesting to just say how amazing it was go for it.

I never said that.

I understand business. I understand that this industry is about making money.

So am I still being cynical and uninteresting? I'm lost. Corporate deciding that Luke might overshadow the new characters still beyond the pale? Corporate saying we need our Ned Stark moment? Impossible?

bada wrote:So am I still being cynical and uninteresting? I'm lost. Corporate deciding that Luke might overshadow the new characters still beyond the pale? Corporate saying we need our Ned Stark moment? Impossible?

Not sure how you want me to respond to this.

I don't by the part of your take that I bolded. That part of the take is cynical and uninteresting to me. Nothing you said is "beyond the pale" but you present it as fact and I'm not sure that's fair or accurate.

These are you opinions. They are not mine. You've made it clear that my opinions are pointless and yours are the gold standard. You deserve to be heard. You're right. This movie sucks.

Blaming corproate is basic bullshit. zzzz's

"Corporate" always has a fucking say in their product. Do you pat them on the back on a movie you like?

Skywalker has way more problems than LucasFilm, Disney, and KK chiming in

I'm not blaming corporate I'm talking the strategy for the movies. Look if this is too inside baseball fine.

bada wrote:I'm not blaming corporate I'm talking the strategy for the movies. Look if this is too inside baseball fine.

jesus...

c'mon bada