Red Mosquito

PHATJ wrote:

This turned out to be accurate but not in the way the meme intended

Apparently, this guy was there, but I don't know if he was inside the Capitol. What are the chances he wasn't?

B wrote:Apparently, this guy was there, but I don't know if he was inside the Capitol. What are the chances he wasn't?

that pic on the left...dude just looks hypnotized.

dad wrote:

B wrote:Apparently, this guy was there, but I don't know if he was inside the Capitol. What are the chances he wasn't?

that pic on the left...dude just looks hypnotized.

Yeah, man. Read the tweet.

yeah, I saw that. Still...

Simple Torture wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:There's no question who's the underdog right now though.

Could you say more about why you think so? Republicans controlled the executive branch and both houses of congress as recently as two years ago, and currently control 27 of 50 governorships and 31 of 50 legislatures. The runoffs in Georgia and the drama of the Democrats taking control have sort of pushed to the side the fact that the GOP is going to get to redraw district lines in a majority of states for the next decade. So, again, how are they clearly the underdog? I'm aware you might be insinuating this in sort of a cultural capital way as well, but I definitely don't think it's so clear politically.

There is a lot of crossover between Jesus freaks and Trumptards like Burt so they just "carried over" their phony penchant for whining and complaining bitterly about being marginalized even though they wield enormous amounts of control and privilege anyway.

Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:There's no question who's the underdog right now though.

Could you say more about why you think so? Republicans controlled the executive branch and both houses of congress as recently as two years ago, and currently control 27 of 50 governorships and 31 of 50 legislatures. The runoffs in Georgia and the drama of the Democrats taking control have sort of pushed to the side the fact that the GOP is going to get to redraw district lines in a majority of states for the next decade. So, again, how are they clearly the underdog? I'm aware you might be insinuating this in sort of a cultural capital way as well, but I definitely don't think it's so clear politically.

There is a lot of crossover between Jesus freaks and Trumptards like Burt so they just "carried over" their phony penchant for whining and complaining bitterly about being marginalized even though they wield enormous amounts of control and privilege anyway.

Oh yeah I forgot about this. (Partially my underdogs comment was meant as "right this minute", not over the last couple of years, but anyway...)

I would distinguish between The Republican Party and conservative voters. The party doesn't represent the voters, and the voters don't share in the power. The politicians are consumed into the system immediately. This happens with both parties, really. When the Republicans win they push for lower taxes for the rich, more free trade, and Middle Eastern wars, while turning a blind eye to immigration, or basically anything else the populist right wants.

They do control the Supreme Court and the governorships, but we've already seen how they routinely push for the right side of mainstream neoliberal agenda, but not much else. And when a big cultural event happens like George Floyd or the Capitol thing, the GOP immediately caves on everything in an attempt to get into the good graces of the corporations or the media that loathes the right in general. They eventually get whipped back into shape enough to put up some token resistance, but by then it's way too late.

What are the conservative people supposed to do? Vote democrat? Why? The other party has open contempt for them, and did so long before Trump. They just scream about them being privileged hicks (see above comment), which is comically paradoxical.

But yes, its also cultural capital. The right doesn't have any. They don't have it Hollywood (both the cultural capital of the US and half the world, sadly). They don't have it in the news media (again FOXnews's popularity does not disprove that.) They don't have it in Silicon Valley. They don't have it in (now woke) corporations or banks. They don't have it in the administrations of universities or schools. The typical rank and file government bureaucrat is likely to be a dem as well. The fact that the GOP shares some power at the top of government isn't that big a deal in comparison.

What do conservatives have? The Church? lol. With the current Pope, they don't really even have that.

That's NOT to say that these institutions are really left wing, or that corporations actually give a shit about woke identity politics, etc. (though most employees and management have drank the kool-aid or feel they can't speak out.) But the overall messaging is blindingly clear, and it's not anything that can be described as what we think of as conservative in the US. The actual policies, while maybe not left-liberal, certainly aren't populist right either.

Most of this also applies to the far left, too, for what it's worth. The democrats hold the center, and will push the left side of neoliberalism while probably throwing people a few scraps. They are in the driver's seat politically and culturally. Increasingly, there is no one else even in the car.

The people outside that bubble have no allies, no power, and no homeland. In steps the orange opportunist from New York...

but Trump is just an aberration. A speed bump. Even if he was competent or sane, he'd probably never be able to change anything. Capital, Technocapital, The System, The Man, Neoliberalism-- whatever you want to call it--marches on.

Take the black pill. Take the Burt pill.

(edited a bit)

The thing is, you’re describing this Conservativism of the People culture not by what it has to offer but by how much influence it can achieve. And your point, even then, is “not much.”

If you were to describe this Conservatism of the People, which is not shared by their ruling conservative elites, what specific values and policy dreams would you ascribe to them?

BurtReynolds wrote: What are the conservative people supposed to do? Vote democrat? Why?

So they could have healthcare? And not die? Kind of a giant, obvious reason, that we all point out, constantly. Multiple Republican legislatures have voted for their own people to get less healthcare, get sick more often, and die. Texas is one of them.

I mean this is all just an extension of the southern strategy. Use the red herring of immigration, anti-wokeness, etc. to cover for the fact that no one has any money or hope.

Orpheus wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: What are the conservative people supposed to do? Vote democrat? Why?

So they could have healthcare? And not die? Kind of a giant, obvious reason, that we all point out, constantly. Multiple Republican legislatures have voted for their own people to get less healthcare, get sick more often, and die. Texas is one of them.

Imagine if you will a group of people who don't want what you want.

I'm not talking about the merits of their positions. I was only answering ST's question about why I think they are underdogs. Or at least part of the reason.

To live? This would have a lot more sway if the pandemic hadn't been savaging rural communities for months. Thousands dead due to misinformation and lack of health care. When did self-preservation become partisan?

Orpheus wrote:To live? This would have a lot more sway if the pandemic hadn't been savaging rural communities for months. Thousands dead due to misinformation and lack of health care. When did self-preservation become partisan?

Yes, Orph. To live. Clearly they just want to die. Great insight.

I'm not being flippant. Do you not think a lack of access to affordable Healthcare is a huge problem for the people you're talking about? Do you think they've gotten better, more affordable care by voting GOP?

I live in a red state, lots of people have died here because of this.

BurtReynolds wrote:I'm not talking about the merits of their positions. I was only answering ST's question about why I think they are underdogs. Or at least part of the reason.

Not that all else is equal, but if all else were equal (like for instance if they didn't have the Trump albatross hanging around their neck), they'd still have huge, if not insurmountable, non governmental institutional hurdles to overcome to put any policy in place nationally. Especially now that the establishment is firmly in control with a mandate to fight "domestic terrorism".

Orpheus wrote:I'm not being flippant. Do you not think a lack of access to affordable Healthcare is a huge problem for the people you're talking about? Do you think they've gotten better, more affordable care by voting GOP?

I live in a red state, lots of people have died here because of this.

Why are you talking to me about healthcare? Do you think they have no argument for not having state healthcare? Do you really think they just like dying?

None of this has anything to do with what I'm talking about.

I don't even know what conservative voters think about healthcare at this moment. I know they don't like insurance companies. Ask someone else.

BurtReynolds wrote:I'm not talking about the merits of their positions. I was only answering ST's question about why I think they are underdogs. Or at least part of the reason.

Ok. But also could you answer mine

I think if your argument is, broadly, that conservatives are underdogs with no cultural or real institutional power (the latter of which I don't buy, but we can leave that aside), but that they're trapped in a sort of death spiral of increasing frustration and lunacy because the other party doesn't offer them anything either, it's relevant to address the fact that *certain* Democrats--definitely not all of them, but some--are proposing massive changes in healthcare policy that could radically alter the fate of conservative and especially rural communities (it would probably make life worse for conservative suburban/exurban communities, which, lol, good). In other words I think Nate is basically asking why right-wing populism can't be appealed to with left-wing populism, which is a fair question and has more or less everything to do with a really vague and broad-strokes argument about why conservatives feel justifiably aggrieved.

Peeps wrote:

Let's all laugh at Rangers wrote:Anyone know who leaked the call?

i thought raffs did since trump threw him under the bus and this was raffs proof of the call

I think you're right.