Red Mosquito

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

tommymtcom wrote:The worst part for me was the nazi rally. I get that these are the bad guys, but I thought that whole scene was cartoonishly evil. It would really help if the Empire had a motivation beyond just being evil.

Motivation is controlling the galaxy with the republic and resistance standing in their way.

Yep.

Do you think people around the world during WWII thought news footage of Hitler and Nazi rallies were "cartoonishly evil?"

McParadigm wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

tommymtcom wrote:The worst part for me was the nazi rally. I get that these are the bad guys, but I thought that whole scene was cartoonishly evil. It would really help if the Empire had a motivation beyond just being evil.

Motivation is controlling the galaxy with the republic and resistance standing in their way.

Yep.

Do you think people around the world during WWII thought news footage of Hitler and Nazi rallies were "cartoonishly evil?"

Germany is probably a good comparison. After a long stretch of influence, they lost everything in a war and were left to rot by the major powers. They had good cause for nationalistic drive. The FO could too.

What's less clear to me (having not seen the film) is this: nationalistic fervor does require some amount of us v them conflict. If the new Republic has a treaty with the FO, then aren't the rebels the only reason there's any war at all? Is their beef just the existence of a second major power, besides their own ideology? Wouldn't the FO's military expansion actually be easier to dismiss/overlook on the part of the Republic, thanks to the resistance? Of course they're bulking up, guys, they're at war with these assholes. Let us pay no mind. What exactly else are the FO doing besides just existing and fighting the resistance, at the start of this? Also, if the Republic is turning a blind eye to them, then doesn't destroying a Republic system invite war with a huge, major power? It's like Germany invading Russia...you would think it would basically guarantee their eventual defeat.

Also, they seem pretty unintimidating after losing that weapon, unless they come up with ANOTHER massive idea of the week, so maybe their closest comparison point is Cobra.

McParadigm wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

tommymtcom wrote:The worst part for me was the nazi rally. I get that these are the bad guys, but I thought that whole scene was cartoonishly evil. It would really help if the Empire had a motivation beyond just being evil.

Motivation is controlling the galaxy with the republic and resistance standing in their way.

Yep.

Do you think people around the world during WWII thought news footage of Hitler and Nazi rallies were "cartoonishly evil?"

Germany is probably a good comparison. After a long stretch of influence, they lost everything in a war and were left to rot by the major powers. They had good cause for nationalistic drive. The FO could too.

What's less clear to me (having not seen the film) is this: nationalistic fervor does require some amount of us v them conflict. If the new Republic has a treaty with the FO, then aren't the rebels the only reason there's any war at all? Is their beef just the existence of a second major power, besides their own ideology? Wouldn't the FO's military expansion actually be easier to dismiss/overlook on the part of the Republic, thanks to the resistance? Of course they're bulking up, guys, they're at war with these assholes. Let us pay no mind. What exactly else are the FO doing besides just existing and fighting the resistance, at the start of this? Also, if the Republic is turning a blind eye to them, then doesn't destroying a Republic system invite war with a huge, major power? It's like Germany invading Russia...you would think it would basically guarantee their eventual defeat.

Also, they seem pretty unintimidating after losing that weapon, unless they come up with ANOTHER massive idea of the week, so maybe their closest comparison point is Cobra.

General Leia and the New Republic
In the film, General Leia’s appearance is saved for late in the film. Leia first shows up as Han, Chewie and Finn outside Maz’s castle following the First Order attack. But originally she appeared much earlier in the film. Her appearance set up the Galactic senate, with Leia having a conversation with Korr Sella (played by Maisie Richardson-Sellers), the dark-haired woman who is featured in the balcony scene when Starkiller base blows up Hosinian Prime. The Visual Dictionary features the above screenshot (right) of Korr, which appears to be a shot from this sequence in the movie. The book also explains that Leia, with a reputation twisted by corrupt politicians, relies on the young envoy to “make her case for the Senate to take direct action against the First Order.” While I don’t know the exact extent of what was filmed, the scene is described in the novelization as follows:

As usual, Leia did not waste time on small talk: “You need to go to the Senate right away. Tell them I insist that they take action against the First Order. The longer they bicker and delay, the stronger the Order becomes.” She leaned toward the other woman. “If they fail to take action soon, the Order will have grown so strong the Senate will be unable to do anything. It won’t matter what they think.” Sella indicated her understanding. “With all respect: Do you think the senators will listen?” “I don’t know.” Leia bit down on her lower lip. “So much time has passed. There was a time when they were at least willing to listen. And of course, the Senate’s makeup has changed. Some of those who were always willing to pay attention to me have retired. Some of those who have replaced them have their own agendas.” She smiled ruefully. “Not all senators think I’m crazy. Or maybe they do. I don’t care what they think about me as long as they take action.” The emissary nodded. “I’ll do all I can to ensure the Resistance gets the hearing we deserve. But why don’t you go yourself, General? An appeal of this nature is always more effective when delivered firsthand.” Leia’s smile thinned. “I might make it to the Senate, yes. I might even be able to deliver my speech. But I would never, never get out of the Hosnian system alive. I would have a terrible ‘accident,’ or become the victim of some ‘deranged’ radical. Or I would eat something that didn’t agree with me. Or encounter someone who didn’t agree with me.” She composed herself. “I have total confidence in you, Sella. I know you will deliver our message to the full extent of your considerable abilities.” The emissary smiled back, grateful for the confidence the general was expressing.”

I don’t know why the scene was cut, as it probably provided clarification about the relationships between the Resistance, the New Republic and the First Order, while also setting up Korr and the Senate for the explosive sequence later in the film. I’m guessing that saving Leia’s appearance for later gave the former Princess a better introduction and didn’t slow down the momentum of the first act.

McParadigm wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

tommymtcom wrote:The worst part for me was the nazi rally. I get that these are the bad guys, but I thought that whole scene was cartoonishly evil. It would really help if the Empire had a motivation beyond just being evil.

Motivation is controlling the galaxy with the republic and resistance standing in their way.

Yep.

Do you think people around the world during WWII thought news footage of Hitler and Nazi rallies were "cartoonishly evil?"

Germany is probably a good comparison. After a long stretch of influence, they lost everything in a war and were left to rot by the major powers. They had good cause for nationalistic drive. The FO could too.

What's less clear to me (having not seen the film) is this: nationalistic fervor does require some amount of us v them conflict. If the new Republic has a treaty with the FO, then aren't the rebels the only reason there's any war at all? Is their beef just the existence of a second major power, besides their own ideology? Wouldn't the FO's military expansion actually be easier to dismiss/overlook on the part of the Republic, thanks to the resistance? Of course they're bulking up, guys, they're at war with these assholes. Let us pay no mind. What exactly else are the FO doing besides just existing and fighting the resistance, at the start of this? Also, if the Republic is turning a blind eye to them, then doesn't destroying a Republic system invite war with a huge, major power? It's like Germany invading Russia...you would think it would basically guarantee their eventual defeat.

Also, they seem pretty unintimidating after losing that weapon, unless they come up with ANOTHER massive idea of the week, so maybe their closest comparison point is Cobra.

durdencommatyler wrote:1. Just watch the fucking movie already.

2. Everything you need to know to understand the movie is in the movie. The rest of the stuff is just extra. Just like the OT and the old EU.

Strat wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:1. Just watch the fucking movie already.

2. Everything you need to know to understand the movie is in the movie. The rest of the stuff is just extra. Just like the OT and the old EU.

I have been sans computer/internet for awhile so I missed some things. Most importantly - Your thoughts on the film.