tragabigzanda wrote:Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb
I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 9:07 pm
by Birds in Hell
tragabigzanda wrote:Phenomenal songwriters with some really awesome records, but I still maintain that they were shitty, idiotic friends motivated by money more than anything else.
Is that really fair? It's entirely possible to be in a band, or any kind of creative project, with someone for a long period of time but that relationship be essentially that of workmates dedicated to common cause, not friends as such. I get that sense from the Pearl Jam guys, to be honest. We don't really have any insight into what they might have done to help Scott but regardless it feels as though you're ascribing to them a degree of responsibility that's unwarranted.
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 9:09 pm
by Dev
I think most people don't know how to help people with issues like Scott. The average person does not want to be inconvenienced and feels it's not their responsibility. I agree that it's not right on some level but...
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 9:15 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 9:23 pm
by Birds in Hell
tragabigzanda wrote:Personally, I think it's totally fair. They took a long-term drug addict and absentee father back out on the road to fuel their own egos and bank accounts. Are they fucking idiots? What did they think would happen?
That seems like a wildly uncharitable interpretation of their motives. Scott was a grown man, I don't believe he was forced to anything he didn't want to do; whether that's go on tour, drink booze, take drugs, etc. Absentee father? That's on the band too? C'mon.
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 9:31 pm
by bart
lol
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 9:33 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 10:24 pm
by Birds in Hell
tragabigzanda wrote:What motive do you think STP had beyond ego and money? If they wanted to create beautiful music together, they could have done that just as easily from a home studio while Scott engaged with an out-patient rehab program.
I'll always tend towards the Steve Albini outlook on bands: They are unique living organisms that are perfectly capable of sustaining their creative output within their respective communities, with virtually no interaction with the world outside of those communities. The desire to sell CDs and merch and get radio play and make residuals of your hits is borne of something else entirely, and has absolutely nothing to do with the act of creating and sharing music with your friends.
I don't know, I think Steve Albini is an interesting guy who's been involved in some great music, but this seems like a very restrictive, idiosyncratic and quite ahistorical attitude towards professional musicians.
I don't think there's anything inherently contradictory about making wonderful music and also wanting to make a living while doing so, whatever that involves.
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 10:35 pm
by Anders
Layne, Andy and Kurt died alone, away from touring. There really isn't an easy answer to this kind of thing. I don't agree that you can blame the band for what happened, unless they did something more than simply tour with him.
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 11:22 pm
by epilogue
Yeah, trag's argument seems reactionary, reductionist, unfair, and beyond cynical.
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 11:42 pm
by tragabigzanda
tragabigzanda wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb
I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 11:51 pm
by Birds in Hell
tragabigzanda wrote:
Birds in Hell wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:What motive do you think STP had beyond ego and money? If they wanted to create beautiful music together, they could have done that just as easily from a home studio while Scott engaged with an out-patient rehab program.
I'll always tend towards the Steve Albini outlook on bands: They are unique living organisms that are perfectly capable of sustaining their creative output within their respective communities, with virtually no interaction with the world outside of those communities. The desire to sell CDs and merch and get radio play and make residuals of your hits is borne of something else entirely, and has absolutely nothing to do with the act of creating and sharing music with your friends.
I don't know, I think Steve Albini is an interesting guy who's been involved in some great music, but this seems like a very restrictive, idiosyncratic and quite ahistorical attitude towards professional musicians.
On the contrary, the notion of rights and residuals generating passive income for musicians represents only about 100 years worth of the entire history of music. Being paid for a gig makes perfect sense, and has been happening for hundreds of years; pursuing peak exposure in the pursuit of passive income is actually idiosyncratic and ahistorical (though not necessarily restrictive).
This is getting way off-track of your original point though, which was the band was somehow complicit in Scott's downfall by going out to work in the same way professional musicians have done for eons (as you yourself just said).
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sat October 07, 2017 11:57 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sun October 08, 2017 2:14 am
by bada
Trag sells ice cream to people with diabetes for money and fame. He makes me sick.
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sun October 08, 2017 4:09 am
by VinylGuy
Trag, these guys fire Scott two times in two very successful moments of the band. I dont think they are the ones to blame for Scott's death at all.
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sun October 08, 2017 6:39 am
by Dev
I kind of agree with trag. We have an obligation to care for each other and think about what is best for the other people in our lives
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sun October 08, 2017 6:42 am
by washing machine
Dev wrote:I kind of agree with trag. We have an obligation to care for each other and think about what is best for the other people in our lives
I think the pilots tried to do that, though.
Re: The Stone Temple Pilots Thread
Posted: Sun October 08, 2017 6:46 am
by Dev
washing machine wrote:
Dev wrote:I kind of agree with trag. We have an obligation to care for each other and think about what is best for the other people in our lives
I think the pilots tried to do that, though.
I guess it could be argued that they didn't take matters seriously enough. But actually I'm not sure how I feel now. They ultimately did kick him out of the band twice and this second time seemed like it was for good. Maybe they actually did make an honest effort to do the right thing.