tree_ wrote:It's all wrong. Luke wouldn't have behaved that way.
He would and he did.
In a movie called the last Jedi. It’s episode 9 in the franchise.
You should really watch it sometime. It’s brilliant
"It's not bad writing if the writers wrote it"
Ladies and gentlemen we are now into the gif end of the argument.
The sign that the asshole has lost and can’t no longer form a sentence never mind an argument
BurtReynolds wrote:Exactly. There was never any indication that Luke would act that way in that situation, even for a moment. In fact, when faced with a far more dangerous situation and a villain that had already committed atrocities, he still saw the good in that villain and chose not to kill him. And on top of that, his actions were vindicated, thus instilling this belief in him even further. There is absolutely no reason Luke would decide to kill kylo except the writers suck.
This is a textbook example of what you call "acting out of character" and all the flowery voiceover in the world can't help that.
This is all fine and dandy of a concrete rebuttal but you can't just ignore the story laid out before you of everything that has occurred since then. If you are taking the luke at the end of ROTJ and inserting him immediately into the confrontation with Kylo, then sure, i agree with you.
But that isn't what is going on. The character has changed. You dont like that change nor what his character turned into (a bit more complexity occurring over a 30 year growth period) but he is acting reasonably from where Luke is when we find him on achtoo.
None of that is in these movies. If he changed, why? How? It's not enough to just say he changed. For all we know he could have just gotten brain damage.
I don't feel one way or another about the character change itself, but you can't just lazily say "oh thirty years is a long time people change you know..."
That change could be an interesting development, but you have to show it. We are never shown why this character, who has never acted this way, suddenly (to the audience) starts acting in a way that completely goes against his background. That's acting out of character.
Dime is a blind fan boy and it's obvious. Anybody could have written anything and as long as it had the lucasfilm Disney stamp on it he would have deemed it unquestionably brilliant, accusing detractors of misogyny. There's zero logic to most his arguments/counterarguments.
BurtReynolds wrote:Exactly. There was never any indication that Luke would act that way in that situation, even for a moment. In fact, when faced with a far more dangerous situation and a villain that had already committed atrocities, he still saw the good in that villain and chose not to kill him. And on top of that, his actions were vindicated, thus instilling this belief in him even further. There is absolutely no reason Luke would decide to kill kylo except the writers suck.
This is a textbook example of what you call "acting out of character" and all the flowery voiceover in the world can't help that.
This is all fine and dandy of a concrete rebuttal but you can't just ignore the story laid out before you of everything that has occurred since then. If you are taking the luke at the end of ROTJ and inserting him immediately into the confrontation with Kylo, then sure, i agree with you.
But that isn't what is going on. The character has changed. You dont like that change nor what his character turned into (a bit more complexity occurring over a 30 year growth period) but he is acting reasonably from where Luke is when we find him on achtoo.
None of that is in these movies. If he changed, why? How? It's not enough to just say he changed. For all we know he could have just gotten brain damage.
I don't feel one way or another about the character change itself, but you can't just lazily say "oh thirty years is a long time people change you know..."
That change could be an interesting development, but you have to show it. We are never shown why this character, who has never acted this way, suddenly (to the audience) starts acting in a way that completely goes against his background. That's acting out of character.
But...they do talk about it throughout both movies :\
BurtReynolds wrote:Exactly. There was never any indication that Luke would act that way in that situation, even for a moment. In fact, when faced with a far more dangerous situation and a villain that had already committed atrocities, he still saw the good in that villain and chose not to kill him. And on top of that, his actions were vindicated, thus instilling this belief in him even further. There is absolutely no reason Luke would decide to kill kylo except the writers suck.
This is a textbook example of what you call "acting out of character" and all the flowery voiceover in the world can't help that.
This is all fine and dandy of a concrete rebuttal but you can't just ignore the story laid out before you of everything that has occurred since then. If you are taking the luke at the end of ROTJ and inserting him immediately into the confrontation with Kylo, then sure, i agree with you.
But that isn't what is going on. The character has changed. You dont like that change nor what his character turned into (a bit more complexity occurring over a 30 year growth period) but he is acting reasonably from where Luke is when we find him on achtoo.
None of that is in these movies. If he changed, why? How? It's not enough to just say he changed. For all we know he could have just gotten brain damage.
I don't feel one way or another about the character change itself, but you can't just lazily say "oh thirty years is a long time people change you know..."
That change could be an interesting development, but you have to show it. We are never shown why this character, who has never acted this way, suddenly (to the audience) starts acting in a way that completely goes against his background. That's acting out of character.
But...they do talk about it throughout both movies :\
First, talking about it is the worst way to cover it.
But where do they talk about why Luke, the character who previously stuck to his core beliefs to the point of death, and who was vindicated by this action, decided to abandon all his core beliefs and kill a kid because he was scared?
It's not enough to just say how. That doesn't explain the change, it just tells me that it happened. You still have to explain why this action is consistent with his character. As it is, it's not consistent at all.
BurtReynolds wrote:It's not enough to just say how. That doesn't explain the change, it just tells me that it happened. You still have to explain why this action is consistent with his character. As it is, it's not consistent at all.
i aren't articulate and stuff so ill copy and paste this if you want to read. These thoughts mirror much of my own on this matter.
not trying to change peoples minds here but since we are on the debate....feel free to give the entire article a read.
While Kylo absorbs and is further wounded by his masters’ hubris, Luke ultimately learns from his own mistakes. I would argue that a key aspect of his redemption arc is that he learns from his hubris and moves forward with a new perspective founded on hope and openness. Luke condemns the Jedi for restricting ownership of the Force, and clearly considers the Skywalkers themselves a great evil – he includes himself in this estimation, having exiled himself to Ahch-To to die. Luke performs a sharp turn away from hubris by losing confidence and exhibiting no pride in his bloodline at all, which makes his journey throughout the film – which sees him recover hope for the future of the Jedi through his interactions with Rey – remarkably powerful. At first he’s frightened by Rey’s connection with Kylo, entering into an explosive rage in an attempt to drive the two young people apart. He pleads with Rey not to give into her visions of Ben Solo returning to the light, and briefly feels helpless upon witnessing her departure in the Falcon. But Yoda reminds Luke of the importance of allowing failure, and gives Luke the resolve he needs to trust that Rey will make the right choice when the moment comes. Rey’s faith and goodness must remind Luke of his own actions – rushing off to save his friends despite his master’s warning, insisting on the possibility of bringing his father back despite everyone else’s lack of faith – as a young man, and he clearly sees in her the hope that he once embodied. He is inspired by this and is given a new sense of inner peace and comfort. Rey’s hope gives him hope in turn, and allows him to achieve the peace and calm that we can presume had eluded him since Ben Solo’s turn. When Luke appears on Crait, he is a finely tooled instrument of the Light side, with his resolve and determination showing up Kylo’s chaotic and unfinished state. He has regained hope and confidence, telling his sister that “no one is ever truly lost” even as he admits that neither of them will be able to bring Ben Solo back.
Hope for the future no longer lies in the older generation or the mythic blood that runs through their veins – it is instead embodied by Rey, and all the others like her who continue to struggle for what is right in the face of darkness and adversity. If Kylo is to escape his own past and break free from the poisonous Skywalker destiny, then he will have to learn the hardest lesson of them all for a man who was raised on the myth of his own inevitable greatness – humility.
BurtReynolds wrote:It's not enough to just say how. That doesn't explain the change, it just tells me that it happened. You still have to explain why this action is consistent with his character. As it is, it's not consistent at all.
i aren't articulate and stuff so ill copy and paste this if you want to read. These thoughts mirror much of my own on this matter.
not trying to change peoples minds here but since we are on the debate....feel free to give the entire article a read.
While Kylo absorbs and is further wounded by his masters’ hubris, Luke ultimately learns from his own mistakes. I would argue that a key aspect of his redemption arc is that he learns from his hubris and moves forward with a new perspective founded on hope and openness. Luke condemns the Jedi for restricting ownership of the Force, and clearly considers the Skywalkers themselves a great evil – he includes himself in this estimation, having exiled himself to Ahch-To to die. Luke performs a sharp turn away from hubris by losing confidence and exhibiting no pride in his bloodline at all, which makes his journey throughout the film – which sees him recover hope for the future of the Jedi through his interactions with Rey – remarkably powerful. At first he’s frightened by Rey’s connection with Kylo, entering into an explosive rage in an attempt to drive the two young people apart. He pleads with Rey not to give into her visions of Ben Solo returning to the light, and briefly feels helpless upon witnessing her departure in the Falcon. But Yoda reminds Luke of the importance of allowing failure, and gives Luke the resolve he needs to trust that Rey will make the right choice when the moment comes. Rey’s faith and goodness must remind Luke of his own actions – rushing off to save his friends despite his master’s warning, insisting on the possibility of bringing his father back despite everyone else’s lack of faith – as a young man, and he clearly sees in her the hope that he once embodied. He is inspired by this and is given a new sense of inner peace and comfort. Rey’s hope gives him hope in turn, and allows him to achieve the peace and calm that we can presume had eluded him since Ben Solo’s turn. When Luke appears on Crait, he is a finely tooled instrument of the Light side, with his resolve and determination showing up Kylo’s chaotic and unfinished state. He has regained hope and confidence, telling his sister that “no one is ever truly lost” even as he admits that neither of them will be able to bring Ben Solo back.
Hope for the future no longer lies in the older generation or the mythic blood that runs through their veins – it is instead embodied by Rey, and all the others like her who continue to struggle for what is right in the face of darkness and adversity. If Kylo is to escape his own past and break free from the poisonous Skywalker destiny, then he will have to learn the hardest lesson of them all for a man who was raised on the myth of his own inevitable greatness – humility.
good write up of a movie i'd like to see... Doesn't sound like the one I saw.
Guys it's fine if you like your stupid, shitty movie that sucks. This is America, and you are allowed to like terrible crap. Just try to avoid calling people who think it sucks misogynist Nazis Hitlers. It just makes you sound stupid.
BurtReynolds wrote:Guys it's fine if you like your stupid, shitty movie that sucks. This is America, and you are allowed to like terrible crap. Just try to avoid calling people who think it sucks misogynist Nazis Hitlers. It just makes you sound stupid.
Oh my god shut up with this. Dime went that route. No one else. Dime does dime.
