Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[stip]

Has anybody had a good counterargument to the stupidity of the whole Holdo/Poe conflict? She says "Hope is like the sun. If you only believe in it when you can see it, you'll never make it through the night"... so she's basically saying, "Poe, you need to listen to me and follow orders even if it looks like I'm completely incompetent and letting everyone die." What kind of lesson is this? Blindly follow authority?

Poe should've taken over as Admiral and started kicking ass at this point. More wasted potential for good storytelling.

Isn't the idea that you need to trust your commanding officers one of the foundational principles of any hierarchical structure (like a military)

[tree_]

Has anybody had a good counterargument to the stupidity of the whole Holdo/Poe conflict? She says "Hope is like the sun. If you only believe in it when you can see it, you'll never make it through the night"... so she's basically saying, "Poe, you need to listen to me and follow orders even if it looks like I'm completely incompetent and letting everyone die." What kind of lesson is this? Blindly follow authority?

Poe should've taken over as Admiral and started kicking ass at this point. More wasted potential for good storytelling.

There have been many, many good counterarguments to this yes. But you won't like/accept any of them, so I won't bother reposting them again. I really liked Holdo/Poe's dynamic in the film and think it's really strong.

Please just give me the reason you think is the most valid.

[epilogue]

Leia suddenly shows up from her coma.. unafraid of the mutineers... somehow knowing everything that's going on and shoots Poe with the stun gun... why wouldn't she send in a subordinate to do this?

Because she knows Poe trusts her. He would never do anything to hurt her. Leia has no reason to fear the mutineers. The mutineers have no reason to distrust Leia. It isn't a mutiny against Leia.

[stip]

Rey saying "I can feel the good in you" to Kylo is basically plagiarism from the OT. It is unearned in this movie and it feels poached. I don't know why Rey believes in Kylo... they do a poor job of getting there. It might make more sense if Luke were the one who were trying to turn him. That may feel more earned. But we don't like that old grump anymore...

Isn't Jedi sensing feelings and conflict in other Jedi like Star Wars 101? That's like calling a light saber duel plagiarism.

Rey and Kylo are both set up as people lost and alone, betrayed by mentors/family, and so it makes sense that they would be drawn to each other

[stip]

Rey saying "I can feel the good in you" to Kylo is basically plagiarism from the OT. It is unearned in this movie and it feels poached. I don't know why Rey believes in Kylo... they do a poor job of getting there. It might make more sense if Luke were the one who were trying to turn him. That may feel more earned. But we don't like that old grump anymore...

Isn't Jedi sensing feelings and conflict in other Jedi like Star Wars 101? That's like calling a light saber duel plagiarism.

Rey and Kylo are both set up as people lost and alone, betrayed by mentors/family, and so it makes sense that they would be drawn to each other

[stip]

Where did Holdo get her gun? Where was she hiding it? She's wearing a skin-tight ball gown... Did someone give it to her?

the novelization answers that question. It was in her butt

[stip]

Leia suddenly shows up from her coma.. unafraid of the mutineers... somehow knowing everything that's going on and shoots Poe with the stun gun... why wouldn't she send in a subordinate to do this?

why was she allowed to go on the Endor mission in Jedi?

[epilogue]

Suddenly Leia and Holdo are giggling about how silly Poe is... the whole point apparently is to absolve Holdo and humiliate Poe and his silly plans... .... why can't a droid pilot the ship, or autopilot? Why is Holdo the one who stays behind?

The movie doesn't do a very good job of going into the detailed machinations of this, and I think for good reason. The answer to this is explored more in the novelization of the film. The simple answer is that a jump to hyperspace, what she's trying to do is really complicated (a course has already been programmed in and someone has to reprogram it, alter the course, and make the jump, and Holdo believes that a human needs to be there to do it to account for critical thinking that a droid may not be able to do).

[tree_]

Where did Holdo get her gun? Where was she hiding it? She's wearing a skin-tight ball gown... Did someone give it to her?

the novelization answers that question. It was in her butt

If you're being serious, that is so stupid.. but if it were in the movie, it'd be more acceptable.

[stip]

I really wish we would have gotten more of a Snoke backstory. So far he's just some guy that became super fucking powerful with the force and liked the dark side, then BOOM he's dead. Maybe we'll get something in IX, but I doubt it.

You could replace the word Snoke with the word Emperor in the OT and that sentence reads exactly the same. I'm not saying more backstory wouldn't have been nice (he doesn't need it for the role he plays in the narrative but that doesn't mean you couldn't make it work), but it's not something new to this trilogy

[stip]

Why did Yoda suddenly show up here? Why didn't he show up and help Luke before, during his downward spiral over 30 years? Apparently all Yoda needed was a sentence or two to make him give a shit again.

We don't know when exactly Yoda last appeared to Luke before he appears in TLJ. Keep in mind that Luke cut himself off from the Force. So there is a large swath of time where Yoda didn't appear because Luke was cut off.

However, before that, we don't know exactly how long it's been. Yoda may have appeared and tried to help him immediately after his academy was destroyed. We haven't been given all of that info yet, so we just don't know.

Alternatley, Yoda appeared at exactly the right moment - when Luke was at his lowest and finally ready to listen

[epilogue]

I really wish we would have gotten more of a Snoke backstory. So far he's just some guy that became super fucking powerful with the force and liked the dark side, then BOOM he's dead. Maybe we'll get something in IX, but I doubt it.

I'm sure we'll get more in supplemental material (novels, comics, etc). I expect we'll get more hints in IX but probably nothing super substantial.

Snoke is just like the Emperor. We know nothing about the guy in the OT. We might honestly know more about Snoke right now than we did about the Emperor at the end of Return of the Jedi. It's a testament to how interesting the character (Snoke) is and to his Andy's performance that so many people feel let down to not know more about him. It's pretty amazing, really.

[epilogue]

that guy was great. It's too bad he died

100%

[epilogue]

Name your five things you loved about this movie. This is a test.

I’ll wakt.

5. Porgs

aw man, Porgs are cool!

I have a porg in my office

Yeah, you do!

[tree_]

Has anybody had a good counterargument to the stupidity of the whole Holdo/Poe conflict? She says "Hope is like the sun. If you only believe in it when you can see it, you'll never make it through the night"... so she's basically saying, "Poe, you need to listen to me and follow orders even if it looks like I'm completely incompetent and letting everyone die." What kind of lesson is this? Blindly follow authority?

Poe should've taken over as Admiral and started kicking ass at this point. More wasted potential for good storytelling.

Isn't the idea that you need to trust your commanding officers one of the foundational principles of any hierarchical structure (like a military)

This is a group of rebels fighting the likes of such empirical rule. They follow their hearts and do what they believe is right. This lesson is something The New Order would teach.

[VinylGuy]

Man all this talk about the movie got me super exited about seeing it again.

THIS WEEKEND FUCKERSSSSS its TFA and TLJ back to back!

[E.H. Ruddock]

I really wish we would have gotten more of a Snoke backstory. So far he's just some guy that became super fucking powerful with the force and liked the dark side, then BOOM he's dead. Maybe we'll get something in IX, but I doubt it.

I'm sure we'll get more in supplemental material (novels, comics, etc). I expect we'll get more hints in IX but probably nothing super substantial.

Snoke is just like the Emperor. We know nothing about the guy in the OT. We might honestly know more about Snoke right now than we did about the Emperor at the end of Return of the Jedi. It's a testament to how interesting the character (Snoke) is and to his Andy's performance that so many people feel let down to not know more about him. It's pretty amazing, really.

Cool, I guess that makes sense. Copying the OT!

[epilogue]

I'm still having trouble with ghost force lightning. Did anybody have a good reason for this yet? Why is this the first time we're seeing it in the SW universe?

The reason is that there are always new powers/strategies being explored. It's the first time we see it because it's the first time we see it. Maybe it's the first time it's ever happened. Why does that bother you? Wouldn't the first time we see it bother you no matter what? If Yoda had done it in Return of the Jedi, would you have been bothered and wondered why we'd never seen it before? There is a first time for everything. And I like that we keep expanding the mythology in such ways, personally.

That's fine... I guess... it just seems like it would've happened in one of the previous movies. If something new is introduced after all this time, it deserves some kind of explanation, I think. Like, Luke saying, "Yoda?! HOW'D YOU DO THAT?!" And Yoda saying something like "I've been quietly growing my powers all this time and now I'm ready to help" or some other attempt at an explanation... If it happened in ROTJ, that's fine.. we're still learning about everything at that point...

Exactly, we're still learning about everything at THAT point. And we're still learning at THIS point.

It seems like you really want things spelled out more explicitly. But your mind arrived a really good answer ("I've been quietly growing my powers all this time and now I'm ready to help") without it being explicitly stated. Your answer is a good answer and it fits without contradicting anything on screen.

[tree_]

I'm still having trouble with ghost force lightning. Did anybody have a good reason for this yet? Why is this the first time we're seeing it in the SW universe?

The reason is that there are always new powers/strategies being explored. It's the first time we see it because it's the first time we see it. Maybe it's the first time it's ever happened. Why does that bother you? Wouldn't the first time we see it bother you no matter what? If Yoda had done it in Return of the Jedi, would you have been bothered and wondered why we'd never seen it before? There is a first time for everything. And I like that we keep expanding the mythology in such ways, personally.

That's fine... I guess... it just seems like it would've happened in one of the previous movies. If something new is introduced after all this time, it deserves some kind of explanation, I think. Like, Luke saying, "Yoda?! HOW'D YOU DO THAT?!" And Yoda saying something like "I've been quietly growing my powers all this time and now I'm ready to help" or some other attempt at an explanation... If it happened in ROTJ, that's fine.. we're still learning about everything at that point...

Exactly, we're still learning about everything at THAT point. And we're still learning at THIS point.

It seems like you really want things spelled out more explicitly. But your mind arrived a really good answer ("I've been quietly growing my powers all this time and now I'm ready to help") without it being explicitly stated. Your answer is a good answer and it fits without contradicting anything on screen.

I can accept this... I guess I need to have more awe/wonder/acceptance of what's happening in order to enjoy it... just feels like if it were written better I wouldn't have to try so hard

[tree_]

In TFA, Snoke learns of the existence of Rey from Kylo and orders Kylo to take her to him. Why? It was implied there would be some sort of meaningful confrontation or temptation. This set-up was shallowly answered in TLJ. "Hi. Tell me where Luke is then I'm going to kill you" is all we get. Then he dies. It could've gone in very interesting, creative directions but instead it just stops. Subversion of expectations does not equal quality. Nobody expected it because it's lame.