Red Mosquito

durdencommatyler wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:I agree that Rian´s choices on pretty much every setup JJ gave us were really weird. It felt he really trying hard to fuck those up...specially with Snoke and Rey and Luke´s meeting.

The only choice I didn't like is how Han's death was pretty much glossed over in the movie cut. The others I loved or appreciated.

Not taking time for Han is weird, yeah. I do understand it, though, from both a story-telling and timeline standpoint. Rian could have made different choices that allowed for it, sure. But by picking up right after TFA like that, it became really difficult.

I didn't think we needed that Luke deleted scene in the film. The emotion Luke shows there is redundant in the context of the film because of his "Where's Han" moment and his time on the Falcon. I would have liked to have a moment where Leia acknowledged or mourned Han, though. But again, she's the kind of character that understands there's a time and a place and the living take precedence.

the reaction to Han's death (in both movies) is really one of the places where the new stories fall down

How something makes someone feel may seem like magic, but if you look closely enough you can see all the moving parts and understand what it's doing to make them feel that way. Everything has objective values to it but hierarchies of value differ from person to person... for objective reasons, if you look closely enough. When you're attracted to a person, it's not magic. You can look closely enough to make sense out of it. The shape of their face, their smell, etc...

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:I get your perspective... it seems to me, though, that anything can be subjective... A blue chair can appear grey to you and remind you of your childhood in a profound way... but there are still objective qualities to it... it was made well, is sturdy, etc...

Craftsmanship is different than art, though. There are things that can be objectively verified and discussed. Movies ain't one of those things.

I think I'm with Tree_ on this. While whether you appreciate something is subjective or not, the elements of craftsmanship that go into storytelling, film making, etc. can be analyazed with some degree of objectivity - in that they are compared to external standards, etc.

Whether or not you like the writing/storytelling in TLJ is subjective. And yes, decisions that are made about why characters react the way they do or not is interpretive, but the interpretation references past texts, context, etc. and you can make a case for some interpretations to be richer, more grounded, etc. than others. That feels like something more than simple subjectivity.

To that point - even if we disagree about whether or not Luke's actions are consistent with the character, that conversation can and should be informed by what we know about the character, how we might reasonably extrapolate their response to new circumstances based on past actions, etc. Even if we disagree, we are disagreeing about something beyond subjectivity, in that we think the other person is incorrect. Whereas someone saying "I like this portrayal of Luke/I don't like this portrayal of Luke' is just subjective. It does what you want it to or it doesn't.

Right...

It seems all subjective really means is the fact that people vary in their hierarchy of values and ability to interpret what's happening and are unpredictable in their opinions. If you place great value on people speaking the English language well in your movie and you don't yet know the English language well, you may think the movie is doing this well while most the cast is speaking jibberish. But when you learn how to speak English more fluently, you'll see the movie actually fails at this, lessening your opinion of the movie. All elements can be measured like this if you look closely enough.

tree_ wrote:How something makes someone feel may seem like magic, but if you look closely enough you can see all the moving parts and understand what it's doing to make them feel that way.

Of course. But these things don't work the same way all the time on different people. It's subjective.

tree_ wrote:Everything has objective values to it but hierarchies of value differ from person to person... for objective reasons, if you look closely enough. When you're attracted to a person, it's not magic. You can look closely enough to make sense out of it. The shape of their face, their smell, etc...

Again, the values differ, though. They are subjective. You may find the shape of your mate's face attractive, while perhaps another does not. Beauty and attraction, like art, are subjective and differ from person to person.

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:How something makes someone feel may seem like magic, but if you look closely enough you can see all the moving parts and understand what it's doing to make them feel that way.

Of course. But these things don't work the same way all the time on the same people. It's subjective.

tree_ wrote:Everything has objective values to it but hierarchies of value differ from person to person... for objective reasons, if you look closely enough. When you're attracted to a person, it's not magic. You can look closely enough to make sense out of it. The shape of their face, their smell, etc...

Again, the values differ, though. They are subjective. You may find the shape of your mate's face attractive, while perhaps another does not. Beauty and attraction, like art, are subjective and differ from person to person.

But those reasons can be found and measured. If you look closely enough, you can find out why you find certain faces more attractive at a specific moment in your life. And that attractive face has objective, measurable values that achieve those things well.

stip wrote:To that point - even if we disagree about whether or not Luke's actions are consistent with the character, that conversation can and should be informed by what we know about the character, how we might reasonably extrapolate their response to new circumstances based on past actions, etc. Even if we disagree, we are disagreeing about something beyond subjectivity, in that we think the other person is incorrect. Whereas someone saying "I like this portrayal of Luke/I don't like this portrayal of Luke' is just subjective. It does what you want it to or it doesn't.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here.

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:How something makes someone feel may seem like magic, but if you look closely enough you can see all the moving parts and understand what it's doing to make them feel that way.

Of course. But these things don't work the same way all the time on the same people. It's subjective.

tree_ wrote:Everything has objective values to it but hierarchies of value differ from person to person... for objective reasons, if you look closely enough. When you're attracted to a person, it's not magic. You can look closely enough to make sense out of it. The shape of their face, their smell, etc...

Again, the values differ, though. They are subjective. You may find the shape of your mate's face attractive, while perhaps another does not. Beauty and attraction, like art, are subjective and differ from person to person.

But those reasons can be found and measured. If you look closely enough, you can find out why you find certain faces more attractive at a specific moment in your life. And that attractive face has objective, measurable values that achieve those things well.

But it isn't the same for everyone. And those things can change. Therefore, it isn't objective.

Hello nutcases!

Hey Burt! How's things?

Tgif

Riiiiiiiiiiight

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:How something makes someone feel may seem like magic, but if you look closely enough you can see all the moving parts and understand what it's doing to make them feel that way.

Of course. But these things don't work the same way all the time on the same people. It's subjective.

tree_ wrote:Everything has objective values to it but hierarchies of value differ from person to person... for objective reasons, if you look closely enough. When you're attracted to a person, it's not magic. You can look closely enough to make sense out of it. The shape of their face, their smell, etc...

Again, the values differ, though. They are subjective. You may find the shape of your mate's face attractive, while perhaps another does not. Beauty and attraction, like art, are subjective and differ from person to person.

But those reasons can be found and measured. If you look closely enough, you can find out why you find certain faces more attractive at a specific moment in your life. And that attractive face has objective, measurable values that achieve those things well.

But it isn't the same for everyone. And those things can change. Therefore, it isn't objective.

All 'subjective' says is you will have a different opinion than me because you have a different hierarchy of values or level of understanding. The media in question has objective qualities to it that are indeed open to misunderstanding/interpretation from anyone's perspective, such as seeing a red chair as grey, but that doesn't change the reality.

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:How something makes someone feel may seem like magic, but if you look closely enough you can see all the moving parts and understand what it's doing to make them feel that way.

Of course. But these things don't work the same way all the time on the same people. It's subjective.

tree_ wrote:Everything has objective values to it but hierarchies of value differ from person to person... for objective reasons, if you look closely enough. When you're attracted to a person, it's not magic. You can look closely enough to make sense out of it. The shape of their face, their smell, etc...

Again, the values differ, though. They are subjective. You may find the shape of your mate's face attractive, while perhaps another does not. Beauty and attraction, like art, are subjective and differ from person to person.

But those reasons can be found and measured. If you look closely enough, you can find out why you find certain faces more attractive at a specific moment in your life. And that attractive face has objective, measurable values that achieve those things well.

But it isn't the same for everyone. And those things can change. Therefore, it isn't objective.

All 'subjective' says is you will have a different opinion than me because you have a different hierarchy of values or level of understanding. The media in question has objective qualities to it that are indeed open to misunderstanding/interpretation from anyone's perspective, such as seeing a red chair as grey, but that doesn't change the reality.

What are the objective realities of The Last Jedi?

Someone make me a mod of this forum. Quickly.

dimejinky99 wrote:Someone make me a mod of this forum. Quickly.

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:How something makes someone feel may seem like magic, but if you look closely enough you can see all the moving parts and understand what it's doing to make them feel that way.

Of course. But these things don't work the same way all the time on the same people. It's subjective.

tree_ wrote:Everything has objective values to it but hierarchies of value differ from person to person... for objective reasons, if you look closely enough. When you're attracted to a person, it's not magic. You can look closely enough to make sense out of it. The shape of their face, their smell, etc...

Again, the values differ, though. They are subjective. You may find the shape of your mate's face attractive, while perhaps another does not. Beauty and attraction, like art, are subjective and differ from person to person.

But those reasons can be found and measured. If you look closely enough, you can find out why you find certain faces more attractive at a specific moment in your life. And that attractive face has objective, measurable values that achieve those things well.

But it isn't the same for everyone. And those things can change. Therefore, it isn't objective.

All 'subjective' says is you will have a different opinion than me because you have a different hierarchy of values or level of understanding. The media in question has objective qualities to it that are indeed open to misunderstanding/interpretation from anyone's perspective, such as seeing a red chair as grey, but that doesn't change the reality.

What are the objective realities of The Last Jedi?

Here's one: Rey's obviously wearing makeup which kills my suspension of disbelief a little, because I pay attention to that sort of detail and find it important.

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:How something makes someone feel may seem like magic, but if you look closely enough you can see all the moving parts and understand what it's doing to make them feel that way.

Of course. But these things don't work the same way all the time on the same people. It's subjective.

tree_ wrote:Everything has objective values to it but hierarchies of value differ from person to person... for objective reasons, if you look closely enough. When you're attracted to a person, it's not magic. You can look closely enough to make sense out of it. The shape of their face, their smell, etc...

Again, the values differ, though. They are subjective. You may find the shape of your mate's face attractive, while perhaps another does not. Beauty and attraction, like art, are subjective and differ from person to person.

But those reasons can be found and measured. If you look closely enough, you can find out why you find certain faces more attractive at a specific moment in your life. And that attractive face has objective, measurable values that achieve those things well.

But it isn't the same for everyone. And those things can change. Therefore, it isn't objective.

All 'subjective' says is you will have a different opinion than me because you have a different hierarchy of values or level of understanding. The media in question has objective qualities to it that are indeed open to misunderstanding/interpretation from anyone's perspective, such as seeing a red chair as grey, but that doesn't change the reality.

What are the objective realities of The Last Jedi?

Here's one: Rey's obviously wearing makeup which kills my suspension of disbelief a little, because I pay attention to that sort of detail and find it important.

Again. Misogyny.

You have no problem with kylos perfectly constructed hair.

But Rey is wearin make up! Bitch!!


You’re a woman hating dumb dumb

dimejinky99 wrote:

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tree_ wrote:How something makes someone feel may seem like magic, but if you look closely enough you can see all the moving parts and understand what it's doing to make them feel that way.

Of course. But these things don't work the same way all the time on the same people. It's subjective.

tree_ wrote:Everything has objective values to it but hierarchies of value differ from person to person... for objective reasons, if you look closely enough. When you're attracted to a person, it's not magic. You can look closely enough to make sense out of it. The shape of their face, their smell, etc...

Again, the values differ, though. They are subjective. You may find the shape of your mate's face attractive, while perhaps another does not. Beauty and attraction, like art, are subjective and differ from person to person.

But those reasons can be found and measured. If you look closely enough, you can find out why you find certain faces more attractive at a specific moment in your life. And that attractive face has objective, measurable values that achieve those things well.

But it isn't the same for everyone. And those things can change. Therefore, it isn't objective.

All 'subjective' says is you will have a different opinion than me because you have a different hierarchy of values or level of understanding. The media in question has objective qualities to it that are indeed open to misunderstanding/interpretation from anyone's perspective, such as seeing a red chair as grey, but that doesn't change the reality.

What are the objective realities of The Last Jedi?

Here's one: Rey's obviously wearing makeup which kills my suspension of disbelief a little, because I pay attention to that sort of detail and find it important.

Again. Misogyny.

You have no problem with kylos perfectly constructed hair.

But Rey is wearin make up! Bitch!!


You’re a woman hating dumb dumb

That's not what I meant. I was illustrating how wildly people can form their opinions on something, based on what they find valuable. You can take this example and apply it to dialogue, plot, everything. Your opinion on it doesn't change the fact that she appears to be wearing makeup. And the reasons why you find it valuable or not can be found and explained.