Red Mosquito

Infallible, Pendulum, Lightning Bolt, and Swallowed Whole in particular suffer from the way they are produced on L-bolt.

stip wrote:Infallible, Pendulum, Lightning Bolt, and Swallowed Whole in particular suffer from the way they are produced on L-bolt.

Maybe we will get a Josh Evans Lightning Bolt remix in 2023

joostone wrote:

stip wrote:Infallible, Pendulum, Lightning Bolt, and Swallowed Whole in particular suffer from the way they are produced on L-bolt.

Maybe we will get a Josh Evans Lightning Bolt remix in 2023

Or BO'B will remix gigaton in 2025 alongside the promise of releasing the holy grail of unreleased PJ, "the Cahnt denhy meehee!!! EP"

joostone wrote:

stip wrote:Infallible, Pendulum, Lightning Bolt, and Swallowed Whole in particular suffer from the way they are produced on L-bolt.

Maybe we will get a Josh Evans Lightning Bolt remix in 2023

Wait.... is Josh Evans the "turn those light out Josh"???

Lounge Lizard wrote:

joostone wrote:

stip wrote:Infallible, Pendulum, Lightning Bolt, and Swallowed Whole in particular suffer from the way they are produced on L-bolt.

Maybe we will get a Josh Evans Lightning Bolt remix in 2023

Wait.... is Josh Evans the "turn those light out Josh"???

No.

Or is he ?? It could be the latest rumour

No.

but what if he is?

Because it was Josh Taft that he was talking to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Taft

and wouldn’t you be tempted to change your identity after such a horrific lighting based screw up?

ooooOOOOOoooo, interesting take.

I wonder.

Huell wrote:Whenever I get to that mid-point of Lightning Bolt where the album turns to slop, I always think 'This guy produced 'Go'....WTF'

joostone wrote:Blaming only BO'B for Lightning Bolt is unfair. That's like saying he's also fully responsable for the greatness of Vs or Vitalogy...

I think O'Brien has always been a "hitmaker"-type producer at heart, and it's easy to forget that those albums we all think sound so great were still big-money jobs that were produced more or less in the commercial vernacular of the time. But making a record with that mindset in 1993, with a commercially and culturally "relevant" band, was a much different enterprise than making a record with that same mindset 20 years later, in a dramatically different market, with a band who exists in a much different cultural sphere. The early '90's were a great time for artists like Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain who wanted to make these kinds of superficial integrity moves (like refusing to include "Better Man" on Vs. because the producer dared to suggest it might be a hit, or hiring Steve Albini to achieve a deliberately raw, non-commercial sound) that were ultimately very low-risk, because at that time there was a multi-platinum market for high-profile bands who put on those airs. Not to say that the artistry in those records isn't 100% genuine, just that the environment was such that everyone could kind of have their cake and eat it too.

There seems to be no question that the band is a lot more complicit in his motivations now. Some of that is natural (they're in their 50's, to some extent taking principled punk rock stances against music on the grounds that it's overtly catchy seems kind of dumb), and some of it is probably just that when you get to a certain point in your career, you lose your instincts somewhat -- in 1993, Pearl Jam was leading the way for what other albums by other bands should sound like; in 2013, they're clearly not in that boat anymore, but there are also a lot of different precedents for what records by artists in that middle-aged legacy/veteran limbo should be. Lightning Bolt was the career timeline equivalent for Pearl Jam that albums like Landing on Water and Human Touch and Dirty Work were for Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen and the Stones, respectively -- in a lot of ways, it has to be hard for producers to know what to do with artists at this stage, and likewise for artists to really know what to do with themselves. Much like those previous examples, they seem to just kind of end up producing a weird facsimile of what that band would sound like in that particular cultural moment, and that reflect the producer's inherent tendencies.

the problem is, josh taft mistook the rock concert for a tv studio and they never worked with him again.

Kevin Davis wrote:

Huell wrote:Whenever I get to that mid-point of Lightning Bolt where the album turns to slop, I always think 'This guy produced 'Go'....WTF'

joostone wrote:Blaming only BO'B for Lightning Bolt is unfair. That's like saying he's also fully responsable for the greatness of Vs or Vitalogy...

I think O'Brien has always been a "hitmaker"-type producer at heart, and it's easy to forget that those albums we all think sound so great were still big-money jobs that were produced more or less in the commercial vernacular of the time. But making a record with that mindset in 1993, with a commercially and culturally "relevant" band, was a much different enterprise than making a record with that same mindset 20 years later, in a dramatically different market, with a band who exists in a much different cultural sphere. The early '90's were a great time for artists like Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain who wanted to make these kinds of superficial integrity moves (like refusing to include "Better Man" on Vs. because the producer dared to suggest it might be a hit, or hiring Steve Albini to achieve a deliberately raw, non-commercial sound) that were ultimately very low-risk, because at that time there was a multi-platinum market for high-profile bands who put on those airs. Not to say that the artistry in those records isn't 100% genuine, just that the environment was such that everyone could kind of have their cake and eat it too.

There seems to be no question that the band is a lot more complicit in his motivations now. Some of that is natural (they're in their 50's, to some extent taking principled punk rock stances against music on the grounds that it's overtly catchy seems kind of dumb), and some of it is probably just that when you get to a certain point in your career, you lose your instincts somewhat -- in 1993, Pearl Jam was leading the way for what other albums by other bands should sound like; in 2013, they're clearly not in that boat anymore, but there are also a lot of different precedents for what records by artists in that middle-aged legacy/veteran limbo should be. Lightning Bolt was the career timeline equivalent for Pearl Jam that albums like Landing on Water and Human Touch and Dirty Work were for Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen and the Stones, respectively -- in a lot of ways, it has to be hard for producers to know what to do with artists at this stage, and likewise for artists to really know what to do with themselves. Much like those previous examples, they seem to just kind of end up producing a weird facsimile of what that band would sound like in that particular cultural moment, and that reflect the producer's inherent tendencies.

Great post!

Landing on water and dirty work are better than lightning bolt though..

Kevin Davis wrote:

Huell wrote:Whenever I get to that mid-point of Lightning Bolt where the album turns to slop, I always think 'This guy produced 'Go'....WTF'

joostone wrote:Blaming only BO'B for Lightning Bolt is unfair. That's like saying he's also fully responsable for the greatness of Vs or Vitalogy...

I think O'Brien has always been a "hitmaker"-type producer at heart, and it's easy to forget that those albums we all think sound so great were still big-money jobs that were produced more or less in the commercial vernacular of the time. But making a record with that mindset in 1993, with a commercially and culturally "relevant" band, was a much different enterprise than making a record with that same mindset 20 years later, in a dramatically different market, with a band who exists in a much different cultural sphere. The early '90's were a great time for artists like Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain who wanted to make these kinds of superficial integrity moves (like refusing to include "Better Man" on Vs. because the producer dared to suggest it might be a hit, or hiring Steve Albini to achieve a deliberately raw, non-commercial sound) that were ultimately very low-risk, because at that time there was a multi-platinum market for high-profile bands who put on those airs. Not to say that the artistry in those records isn't 100% genuine, just that the environment was such that everyone could kind of have their cake and eat it too.

There seems to be no question that the band is a lot more complicit in his motivations now. Some of that is natural (they're in their 50's, to some extent taking principled punk rock stances against music on the grounds that it's overtly catchy seems kind of dumb), and some of it is probably just that when you get to a certain point in your career, you lose your instincts somewhat -- in 1993, Pearl Jam was leading the way for what other albums by other bands should sound like; in 2013, they're clearly not in that boat anymore, but there are also a lot of different precedents for what records by artists in that middle-aged legacy/veteran limbo should be. Lightning Bolt was the career timeline equivalent for Pearl Jam that albums like Landing on Water and Human Touch and Dirty Work were for Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen and the Stones, respectively -- in a lot of ways, it has to be hard for producers to know what to do with artists at this stage, and likewise for artists to really know what to do with themselves. Much like those previous examples, they seem to just kind of end up producing a weird facsimile of what that band would sound like in that particular cultural moment, and that reflect the producer's inherent tendencies.

Excellent post.

That was excellent. Lightning Bolt is better than Landing On Water and Dirty Work respectfully. But if Lightning Bolt ends up being the rock bottom of the Pearl Jam catalogue when all is said and done, then kudos to them. We might push that it just doesn’t add up to their other releases but it’s still got plenty to draw from even if it doesn’t blaze any new ground for them. I would say it’s a good record and not a great one, which by their standards (which are very high) leaves it feeling worse than it actually is. To my ears, Landing on Water, Dirty Work, and Human Touch would suck no matter who played on them. All were examples of an artist trying to tie their classic sound into a more modern (80s) vernacular that fell flat on their face. Lightning Bolt is an aging Pearl Jam trying to ape their own sound one last time and it coming off tired and stale as a whole - even though I would argue individually a lot of the tracks are good.

Half of Human Touch rules

stip wrote:Infallible, Pendulum, Lightning Bolt, and Swallowed Whole in particular suffer from the way they are produced on L-bolt.

BoB rapes and murders Infallible with his production. Can't make it past the first 20 seconds.

I just threw on S/T for the first time in forever (The Brickwall Hater Mix) and gotta say I really enjoyed it. I've always placed it well above BS and LB in my rankings, but I think it's moving on up yet again.

Higgs wrote:I just threw on S/T for the first time in forever (The Brickwall Hater Mix) and gotta say I really enjoyed it. I've always placed it well above BS and LB in my rankings, but I think it's moving on up yet again.

I love that album. Understand the complaints about the production but there's not a song on it I skip. Bangers front to back. Big Wave the weakest, but it doesn't offend me.