Red Mosquito

stip wrote: I don't think that's good for the mood/flow of the record because McP is right. It basically negates sometimes, but then tries to rebuild it right afterwards.

I need to listen to the start of the album again.

consider the lyric: "i don't want to think, i want to feel." Ed's almost admitting he's taking a break from introspection.

also, thank you McP.

double-also, these guys basically made an album a year from 1993-1996, and they are all tremendous. Vs., Vitalogy, Mirror Ball/Merkin Ball, and No Code.

elliseamos wrote:

stip wrote: I don't think that's good for the mood/flow of the record because McP is right. It basically negates sometimes, but then tries to rebuild it right afterwards.

I need to listen to the start of the album again.

consider the lyric: "i don't want to think, i want to feel." Ed's almost admitting he's taking taking a break from introspection.

that lyric really only has meaning internal to the song, though, (since the songs that surround them are all introspective songs) and even then is misleading since hail hail is a song at least in part about how he can't stop over-thinking his relationship

there are a lot of good arguments that can be made on behalf of hail hail's placement, and perhaps even the shattering way it begins, but I still think it's too jarring and undercuts sometimes (and at least part of the subsequent flow of the rest of the A-side). I stand by can't keep---save you shooting for the same mood more effectively (although I suppose part of that is because I like that song combo better)

stip wrote:

elliseamos wrote:

stip wrote: I don't think that's good for the mood/flow of the record because McP is right. It basically negates sometimes, but then tries to rebuild it right afterwards.

I need to listen to the start of the album again.

consider the lyric: "i don't want to think, i want to feel." Ed's almost admitting he's taking taking a break from introspection.

that lyric really only has meaning internal to the song, and even then is misleading since hail hail is a song at least in part about how he can't stop over-thinking his relationship

it tells me what he "wants" not necessarily what he's doing.

elliseamos wrote:

stip wrote:

elliseamos wrote:

stip wrote: I don't think that's good for the mood/flow of the record because McP is right. It basically negates sometimes, but then tries to rebuild it right afterwards.

I need to listen to the start of the album again.

consider the lyric: "i don't want to think, i want to feel." Ed's almost admitting he's taking taking a break from introspection.

that lyric really only has meaning internal to the song, and even then is misleading since hail hail is a song at least in part about how he can't stop over-thinking his relationship

it tells me what he "wants" not necessarily what he's doing.

Perhaps, but you get a very different message in Who You Are and In My Tree, both of which are positive songs that are about reflection, not feeling

stip wrote:

elliseamos wrote:

stip wrote:

elliseamos wrote:

stip wrote: I don't think that's good for the mood/flow of the record because McP is right. It basically negates sometimes, but then tries to rebuild it right afterwards.

I need to listen to the start of the album again.

consider the lyric: "i don't want to think, i want to feel." Ed's almost admitting he's taking taking a break from introspection.

that lyric really only has meaning internal to the song, and even then is misleading since hail hail is a song at least in part about how he can't stop over-thinking his relationship

it tells me what he "wants" not necessarily what he's doing.

Perhaps, but you get a very different message in Who You Are and In My Tree, both of which are positive songs that are about reflection, not feeling

go on...

now (since i just got to this point in my listening) explain the jump from Off He Goes to Habit.

elliseamos wrote:now (since i just got to this point in my listening) explain the jump from Off He Goes to Habit.

It's perfect.

Birds in Hell wrote:

elliseamos wrote:now (since i just got to this point in my listening) explain the jump from Off He Goes to Habit.

It's perfect.

it's not a complaint, but the conversation to this point was focused on sometimes->hail, hail... off he goes->habit seems just as big a contrast in volume/feel/message (although i see plenty to relate the two stories).

it's another jarring jump, but it also starts a long sequence of aggressive songs so it isn't as much of a mood/momentum stumbling block me. The sometimes--hail hail jump wouldn't bother me as much if a different song followed hail hail

I think habit is the start of the b-side as well, isn't it?

stip wrote:it's another jarring jump, but it also starts a long sequence of aggressive songs so it isn't as much of a mood/momentum stumbling block me. The sometimes--hail hail jump wouldn't bother me as much if a different song followed hail hail

I think habit is the start of the b-side as well, isn't it?

i wouldn't know, i listen to playlists at this point.

The progression from "Hail Hail" to "Who You Are" works because of how "Hail Hail" ends-- the sustained major chord, the unwinding drum part, and finally those gentle guitar arpeggios. They let the air out of the song and set the tone for "Who You Are".

theplatypus wrote:The progression from "Hail Hail" to "Who You Are" works because of how "Hail Hail" ends-- the sustained major chord, the unwinding drum part, and finally those gentle guitar arpeggios. They let the air out of the song and set the tone for "Who You Are".

well that's one way to say it. nice.

i might be way off with this, especially since its been a while since ive listened to a pre 96 boot, but after 96 for sure it seems that PJ more often then not opens their shows with a slower/softer song and goes right into a rocker for the 2nd song, so maybe it is a bit of a play on that to go into the much louder and faster Hail Hail right after the slower softer Sometimes. it could definitely transition a bit smoother on the album, and kinda like Glorified G right after daughter did, early on it would make me jump as hail hail started when i had the headphones on and the volume way up, but i cant see changing the order of anything on No Code.

Its kind of funny how long this conversation has gone on.

Habit is the first song on Side B.

theplatypus wrote:The progression from "Hail Hail" to "Who You Are" works because of how "Hail Hail" ends-- the sustained major chord, the unwinding drum part, and finally those gentle guitar arpeggios. They let the air out of the song and set the tone for "Who You Are".

Yeah, I have no problem with that transition. Again, my issue with all this is that I think there is no need to destroy the mood created by sometimes since after hail hail they attempt to recreate it on the rest of the A-side.

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:i might be way off with this, especially since its been a while since ive listened to a pre 96 boot, but after 96 for sure it seems that PJ more often then not opens their shows with a slower/softer song and goes right into a rocker for the 2nd song, so maybe it is a bit of a play on that to go into the much louder and faster Hail Hail right after the slower softer Sometimes. it could definitely transition a bit smoother on the album, and kinda like Glorified G right after daughter did, early on it would make me jump as hail hail started when i had the headphones on and the volume way up, but i cant see changing the order of anything on No Code.

Vs. is not trying to build or sustain a mood the way that I think No Code is, though. There are thematic bridges between all the songs on Vs, but not an atmosphere.

And I wouldn't really prefer to change the order as much as I think the transition (as much volume as anything else) should not be as abrasive between sometimes and hail hail.

I know I'm almost certainly alone in this, but I also am not a huge fan of the nasal qualities to eddie's voice on this album. It's quite possibly the vocal performances I like the least in the whole catalog. These or Riot Act.

stip wrote:

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:i might be way off with this, especially since its been a while since ive listened to a pre 96 boot, but after 96 for sure it seems that PJ more often then not opens their shows with a slower/softer song and goes right into a rocker for the 2nd song, so maybe it is a bit of a play on that to go into the much louder and faster Hail Hail right after the slower softer Sometimes. it could definitely transition a bit smoother on the album, and kinda like Glorified G right after daughter did, early on it would make me jump as hail hail started when i had the headphones on and the volume way up, but i cant see changing the order of anything on No Code.

Vs. is not trying to build or sustain a mood the way that I think No Code is, though. There are thematic bridges between all the songs on Vs, but not an atmosphere.

And I wouldn't really prefer to change the order as much as I think the transition (as much volume as anything else) should not be as abrasive between sometimes and hail hail.

i was only mentioning the Daughter to Glorified transition because its the only other one that can make me jump a little with the headphones on loud if im not paying attention. and i do agree that the transition could be a lot smoother from Sometimes to Hail Hail, but how would you do it, just have Hail Hail a little quieter over all?

I guess? That's someone else's problem!