Red Mosquito

durdencommatyler wrote:

Biff Pocoroba wrote:Just as (mainstream white moderate/conservative) people are starting to get the idea of Black People Matter the left comes up with "defund the police" to chase that support away.

*I know defund doesn't mean cutting police out completely but that is how it sounds to the casual observer

**I also know the Minneapolis City Council has suggested disbanding their police force and starting over all together.

If you know, then why be dismissive instead of instructive and supportive?

YEAH BIFF.

SHAME
SHAME
SHAME
SHAME

Wait so you're saying that the left after making some gains has decided to ask for more? Sounds rad as hell my man

Mickey wrote:Wait so you're saying that the left after making some gains has decided to ask for more? Sounds rad as hell my man

To be fair the whole defund/abolish the police fight could use better messaging. If you have to say "no, it doesn't mean what you instinctively think it means" then you have a messaging problem.

Perhaps moderates should stop co-opting radical language for reformist demands, then. Defund the police seems pretty self explanatory, of course the money goes elsewhere.

Mickey wrote:Perhaps moderates should stop co-opting radical language for reformist demands, then. Defund the police seems pretty self explanatory, of course the money goes elsewhere.

I've never been more attracted to you.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mickey wrote:Perhaps moderates should stop co-opting radical language for reformist demands, then. Defund the police seems pretty self explanatory, of course the money goes elsewhere.

I've never been more attracted to you.

Biff Pocoroba wrote:Just as (mainstream white moderate/conservative) people are starting to get the idea of Black People Matter the left comes up with "defund the police" to chase that support away.

*I know defund doesn't mean cutting police out completely but that is how it sounds to the casual observer

**I also know the Minneapolis City Council has suggested disbanding their police force and starting over all together.

It’s all how you phrase it isn’t it? Just tell them you want to bust up the police unions.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Biff Pocoroba wrote:Just as (mainstream white moderate/conservative) people are starting to get the idea of Black People Matter the left comes up with "defund the police" to chase that support away.

*I know defund doesn't mean cutting police out completely but that is how it sounds to the casual observer

**I also know the Minneapolis City Council has suggested disbanding their police force and starting over all together.

If you know, then why be dismissive instead of instructive and supportive?

We have a fickle, easily swayed population with racist tendencies (see Trump winning in 2016 to the shock of many). Biff's concern is legitimate. The democrats are smart to not wrap themselves in this new slogan which doesn't accurately define the potential solution. It sounds crazy and easy to dismiss as liberal pie in the sky thinking.

There's a difference between politicians and activists.

Whole bunch of Republican talking points up in here. And I'm just not interested.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:There's a difference between politicians and activists.

Many politicians, from both sides of the aisle, engage in activism from within office. And at any rate, it's up to our elected leaders to take the desires of their constituents and distill them into something actionable.

Exactly. Which is what is happening. Which is just one reason why the hand-wringing over an activist slogan is so frustrating and disappointing.

What are the chances that Trump cakewalks to the podium? 15%? Am I low-balling it?

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:There's a difference between politicians and activists.

Many politicians, from both sides of the aisle, engage in activism from within office. And at any rate, it's up to our elected leaders to take the desires of their constituents and distill them into something actionable.

Exactly. Which is what is happening. Which is just one reason why the hand-wringing over an activist slogan is so frustrating and disappointing.

But then why characterize Biff's post as unhelpful? If the activists types are pushing language that is antithetical to their intention, and the politicians are pushing back on that language, then wouldn't Biff's venting of frustration be helpful in furthering that dialogue between the two parties?

Activists types aren't pushing language that is antithetical to their intention. As Biff stated himself, he understands this. Venting is fine. Biff's post isn't helpful (your word, not mine) because it continues to confuse what's happening and propagate what amounts to Republican talking points. Which in turn only works to achieve the division and distraction that they want, which keeps the cause from advancing in a real, meaningful way.

Case in point, we're having this debate instead of having the necessary discussion around defunding the police.

Further, and less importantly, it's not helpful (again, your word) because he immediately says he knows the thing he's saying isn't true. He's blaming Black Lives Matter for their messaging instead of venting at those who are twisting that messaging and politicizing it for their own benefit and to the detriment of the cause.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:There's a difference between politicians and activists.

Many politicians, from both sides of the aisle, engage in activism from within office. And at any rate, it's up to our elected leaders to take the desires of their constituents and distill them into something actionable.

Exactly. Which is what is happening. Which is just one reason why the hand-wringing over an activist slogan is so frustrating and disappointing.

But then why characterize Biff's post as unhelpful? If the activists types are pushing language that is antithetical to their intention, and the politicians are pushing back on that language, then wouldn't Biff's venting of frustration be helpful in furthering that dialogue between the two parties?

Well, Biff did originally say "the left" is chasing away support. The reality seems to be that "defund the police" is not very popular. It doesn't poll well at all which makes clear that even a majority on the left doesn't really support this. Even Bernie came out and said he wouldn't use this language and that a world without a police dept isn't reality. The below quote shows only 16% of people support this, so really it's just hard left activists doing their thing - and it seems to be working by sparking conversations and coming up with ideas.

From newsweek earlier:

A YouGov/Yahoo! News poll released Tuesday asked 1,060 adults if they supported cutting funds for police departments in an effort to reduce deadly force encounters. Of the options available, cutting funding received the least amount of support with 16 percent of people responding that they favored the measure. Of the people YouGov polled, 64 percent self-identified as white, 12 percent as Black, 15 percent as Hispanic and 9 percent as "other."