Catch All PTA's Licorice Pizza Thread (Nov. 26, 2021)

[VinylGuy]

Well, like I said before I think if you take DDL's performance (and to a lesser degree Dano's) out of the movie the whole thing falls apart. It's just window dressing without any real substantive exploration of theme. And it didn't resonate with me emotionally either. So, while it's pretty, it doesn't offer anything interesting intellectually and doesn't work emotionally.

But why do you feel like that? Because the movie has tons of emotional moments, the ending, the relationship between DLL and his kid, hell the opening sequence with the guy with the broken leg crawling for a penny...it also shows the greed, the violence and its a cruel despiction of the 20th century´s capitalism at its core.

[VinylGuy]

thinking about your lack of interest on Martin Scorsese´s Goodfellas ( or his movies actually) or even QT´s Once Upon A Time...

Is it possible that violence turns you off?

[epilogue]

I definitely don't look forward to violence in film, that's for sure. But I wouldn't say it's an automatic deal breaker. The problem is usually the way the violence is used.

Look at something like Promising Young Woman. No Spoilers but there's violence in that film that is used expertly and effectively. It's so powerful and appropriate. So, it's not just the violence.

There are ton of movies that I love that are violent. Ditto with TV shows.

[epilogue]

Well, like I said before I think if you take DDL's performance (and to a lesser degree Dano's) out of the movie the whole thing falls apart. It's just window dressing without any real substantive exploration of theme. And it didn't resonate with me emotionally either. So, while it's pretty, it doesn't offer anything interesting intellectually and doesn't work emotionally.

But why do you feel like that? Because the movie has tons of emotional moments, the ending, the relationship between DLL and his kid, hell the opening sequence with the guy with the broken leg crawling for a penny...it also shows the greed, the violence and its a cruel despiction of the 20th century´s capitalism at its core.

I feel that way because the movie isn't successful at making me feel otherwise. My feelings are my reaction to the movie. If the movie was successful and accomplished it's presumed goals, then I'd feel differently. But that's what I'm saying. For me, the movie doesn't work. Obviously, that's not the case for you. I know that's not the kind of conversation you want to have but I don't know how else to answer your question.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[epilogue]

The Master is so good.

[VinylGuy]

I love TWBB, but I agree with Joe that you take DDL out of that movie and there's basically nothing happening. And everything that does happen with him is extremely one-dimensional, thematically speaking.

That's why I wish there was more of Dano's character. But it's maybe fair to argue that his story was basically explored in depth in The Master.

Thats the point of the movie. He is one dimensional. Thats kinda what PT is also saying about capitalism and whats going to happen with society.

I think thats why the movie is so fucking great.

[VinylGuy]

I definitely don't look forward to violence in film, that's for sure. But I wouldn't say it's an automatic deal breaker. The problem is usually the way the violence is used.

Look at something like Promising Young Woman. No Spoilers but there's violence in that film that is used expertly and effectively. It's so powerful and appropriate. So, it's not just the violence.

There are ton of movies that I love that are violent. Ditto with TV shows.

While i like the approach of PYW, the movie itself, specially in the latter half needs a more graphic despiction of violence. The last scene, kinda gets cold feet about it...

Spoiler: show

Her death is just...meh. Kind of an accident really.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[VinylGuy]

I mean of course its super powerful

Spoiler: show

but i needed more. The guy is a piece of shit. It felt those kind of men would kill her in different way. It felt surreal. and the ending was really cheesy and uninspired

[tree_]

With TWBB and Phantom Thread, it's not even necessarily the themes that matter to me, it's all about style and execution. So taking out the performance is a non starter. They're beautiful, maddeningly articulate paintings. You just have to soak these movies in and let them intoxicate you. It's almost like he's challenging himself to make an amazing movie out of "boring" subject matter.

[VinylGuy]

Yeah, agree.

[tragabigzanda]

Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.

[tree_]

I'm going to watch PYW tonight probably. Not clicking the spoilers.

[epilogue]

With TWBB and Phantom Thread, it's not even necessarily the themes that matter to me, it's all about style and execution. So taking out the performance is a non starter. They're beautiful, maddeningly articulate paintings. You just have to soak these movies in and let them intoxicate you. It's almost like he's challenging himself to make an amazing movie out of "boring" subject matter.

This is an interesting take and I totally understand why those films work for you if that's how you experience them. I don't think I agree with your final sentence. I don't think he thinks the subjects are boring at all. But I don't know the man, so you could be right. If that is the challenge, then I'd say he's failed more than he's succeeded.

[tree_]

Sure I bet he is fascinated with the subject matter but I doubt he thinks most of the audience would be. And he’s betting on himself to make it interesting anyway.

[tree_]

I do love watching movies that way, just letting them wash over me and intoxicate me. But unfortunately most movies are just not made to be viewed that way. He is to me close to the equivalent of Radiohead. So weird and rare and brilliant.

[epilogue]

I love that. I wish he was a little weirder, even, some times. I love when he gets weird.

[tree_]

To me there will be blood and phantom thread are infinitely weird Yet make perfect sense. Like strange dreams that I needed to have

[epilogue]

Do you like David Lynch's stuff, tree?