Red Mosquito

McParadigm wrote:

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:At one point in one of these convos, harmless described Pearl Jam as having "always been cheesy." It really lost its descriptive assistance for me, after that.

I think that was a flippant over-generalisation on my part that is in many ways true, but not in every way, and obviously not in the ways you're thinking of.

I think I understand your use of the word, and if I do then I'd tend to agree that it describes something that has inhabited most Pearl Jam releases...I'm just saying that it takes away any descriptive value when discussing Pearl Jam on, say, Yield, vs. Pearl Jam on Yellow Moon. Saying a song has "cheese," after that, is like saying it has guitars on it.

Yellow moon DOES have guitars! it works!

stupidmop wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mike wrote:Neither Yellow Moon nor Low Light are cheesy to me. Low Light is one of the non-cheesiest ballads they've done. That's one of the reasons I like it so much.

Yellow Moon is no more "cheesy" than Automatic-era R.E.M, imo.

I bet id find that album fairly cheesy then

This is kinda bombastic, I think thats the word. Like love reign over me, bombastic.

I love how it starts to move in that direction and then pulls itself back just enough

stip wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:At one point in one of these convos, harmless described Pearl Jam as having "always been cheesy." It really lost its descriptive assistance for me, after that.

I think that was a flippant over-generalisation on my part that is in many ways true, but not in every way, and obviously not in the ways you're thinking of.

I think I understand your use of the word, and if I do then I'd tend to agree that it describes something that has inhabited most Pearl Jam releases...I'm just saying that it takes away any descriptive value when discussing Pearl Jam on, say, Yield, vs. Pearl Jam on Yellow Moon. Saying a song has "cheese," after that, is like saying it has guitars on it.

Yellow moon DOES have guitars! it works!

Right, but of all the "cheese" on this album, I'm not sure that Yellow Moon is worth my vitriol. The single most annoying and unnecessary thing on this album, for me, is that 60s Austin Powers warbly keyboard that invades "Lightning Bolt" for no reason at all, once or twice. The Springsteen-esque stuff in the outro I quite like. The happy chorus on Infallible is jarring, but I'm not blaming BoB for it. And apart from the piano being an uncomfortable BoB "stamp" on the end of the record, I don't mind it. I guess I don't hear "cheese" on Yellow Moon any more than I hear it on some of the Lost Dogs songs. Aside from a bit of extra gloss, I find this album to be quite comparable to Lost Dogs.

stip wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mike wrote:Neither Yellow Moon nor Low Light are cheesy to me. Low Light is one of the non-cheesiest ballads they've done. That's one of the reasons I like it so much.

Yellow Moon is no more "cheesy" than Automatic-era R.E.M, imo.

I bet id find that album fairly cheesy then

This is kinda bombastic, I think thats the word. Like love reign over me, bombastic.

I love how it starts to move in that direction and then pulls itself back just enough

Yeah. Wasn't there a review that said this song tried to be a little more "epic" than it was capable of? I'd agree with that. Without BoB's encouragement towards excess (which I'm wholly imagining based on a lot of our speculation) Pearl Jam wouldn't have reached for that, but they do here, and it's alright. I think their old subtlety wouldn't have worked on any of these songs, considering they all pretty much reach for a heightened level of drama. An album like Yield, and especially Binaural or Riot Act, would've been a bit more hesitant to do that. A song like NAIS could've been Sirens, with more caution thrown to the wind.

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mike wrote:Neither Yellow Moon nor Low Light are cheesy to me. Low Light is one of the non-cheesiest ballads they've done. That's one of the reasons I like it so much.

Yellow Moon is no more "cheesy" than Automatic-era R.E.M, imo.

I bet id find that album fairly cheesy then

This is kinda bombastic, I think thats the word. Like love reign over me, bombastic.

I love how it starts to move in that direction and then pulls itself back just enough

Yeah. Wasn't there a review that said this song tried to be a little more "epic" than it was capable of? I'd agree with that. Without BoB's encouragement towards excess (which I'm wholly imagining based on a lot of our speculation) Pearl Jam wouldn't have reached for that, but they do here, and it's alright. I think their old subtlety wouldn't have worked on any of these songs, considering they all pretty much reach for a heightened level of drama. An album like Yield, and especially Binaural or Riot Act, would've been a bit more hesitant to do that. A song like NAIS could've been Sirens, with more caution thrown to the wind.

Yields got plenty of drama to spare. But binaural and riot act sure

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:At one point in one of these convos, harmless described Pearl Jam as having "always been cheesy." It really lost its descriptive assistance for me, after that.

I think that was a flippant over-generalisation on my part that is in many ways true, but not in every way, and obviously not in the ways you're thinking of.

I think I understand your use of the word, and if I do then I'd tend to agree that it describes something that has inhabited most Pearl Jam releases...I'm just saying that it takes away any descriptive value when discussing Pearl Jam on, say, Yield, vs. Pearl Jam on Yellow Moon. Saying a song has "cheese," after that, is like saying it has guitars on it.

Yellow moon DOES have guitars! it works!

Right, but of all the "cheese" on this album, I'm not sure that Yellow Moon is worth my vitriol. The single most annoying and unnecessary thing on this album, for me, is that 60s Austin Powers warbly keyboard that invades "Lightning Bolt" for no reason at all, once or twice. The Springsteen-esque stuff in the outro I quite like. The happy chorus on Infallible is jarring, but I'm not blaming BoB for it. And apart from the piano being an uncomfortable BoB "stamp" on the end of the record, I don't mind it. I guess I don't hear "cheese" on Yellow Moon any more than I hear it on some of the Lost Dogs songs. Aside from a bit of extra gloss, I find this album to be quite comparable to Lost Dogs.

I love that effect in lightning bolt, you jerk!

here far away
one could feel the earth vibrate
moon changing shape and shade
as we all __________its gaze

yellow moon on the rise
yellow moon on the rise

round we go where we stop yea no one knows
so tonight the moon _____( i go?)

yellow moon on the rise

An echo that rings
a bullet on a string
one life one grave
____________the brain (tarnish the? promises?)
Behind the sky grows dark
with fallen stars
who come so far
a headstone and grave
the colours turn grey
the black and white fades

yellow moon on the rise
yellow moon on the rise
yellow moon on the rise
yellow moon on the rise

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mike wrote:Neither Yellow Moon nor Low Light are cheesy to me. Low Light is one of the non-cheesiest ballads they've done. That's one of the reasons I like it so much.

Yellow Moon is no more "cheesy" than Automatic-era R.E.M, imo.

I bet id find that album fairly cheesy then

This is kinda bombastic, I think thats the word. Like love reign over me, bombastic.

I love how it starts to move in that direction and then pulls itself back just enough

Yeah. Wasn't there a review that said this song tried to be a little more "epic" than it was capable of? I'd agree with that. Without BoB's encouragement towards excess (which I'm wholly imagining based on a lot of our speculation) Pearl Jam wouldn't have reached for that, but they do here, and it's alright. I think their old subtlety wouldn't have worked on any of these songs, considering they all pretty much reach for a heightened level of drama. An album like Yield, and especially Binaural or Riot Act, would've been a bit more hesitant to do that. A song like NAIS could've been Sirens, with more caution thrown to the wind.

Yields got plenty of drama to spare. But binaural and riot act sure

Yeah, I think the Yield sparseness is not so much to do with a lack of "drama" but a lack of extra dramatic padding from production. If more production wizardry was added, much of the Yield material could've seemed more contrived than it did. I really do wonder what changed BoB's aesthetic values so much.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:At one point in one of these convos, harmless described Pearl Jam as having "always been cheesy." It really lost its descriptive assistance for me, after that.

I think that was a flippant over-generalisation on my part that is in many ways true, but not in every way, and obviously not in the ways you're thinking of.

I think I understand your use of the word, and if I do then I'd tend to agree that it describes something that has inhabited most Pearl Jam releases...I'm just saying that it takes away any descriptive value when discussing Pearl Jam on, say, Yield, vs. Pearl Jam on Yellow Moon. Saying a song has "cheese," after that, is like saying it has guitars on it.

Yellow moon DOES have guitars! it works!

Right, but of all the "cheese" on this album, I'm not sure that Yellow Moon is worth my vitriol. The single most annoying and unnecessary thing on this album, for me, is that 60s Austin Powers warbly keyboard that invades "Lightning Bolt" for no reason at all, once or twice. The Springsteen-esque stuff in the outro I quite like. The happy chorus on Infallible is jarring, but I'm not blaming BoB for it. And apart from the piano being an uncomfortable BoB "stamp" on the end of the record, I don't mind it. I guess I don't hear "cheese" on Yellow Moon any more than I hear it on some of the Lost Dogs songs. Aside from a bit of extra gloss, I find this album to be quite comparable to Lost Dogs.

I love that effect in lightning bolt, you jerk!

What do you like about it? I'm interested. Bear in mind it appears only twice, and you could have virtually any other instrument in there to do the same thing. I don't even know what the sound is called, which is even more frustrating. Who thinks "I know, we need one of those 60s wobbly things in there, that'll be just the thing!"?

Something about this song, maybe it's the earthy lyrics, maybe it's the vocal melodies (certainly not the acoustic sound though)... reminds me of 1/2 Full.

Not a big fan of either.

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mike wrote:Neither Yellow Moon nor Low Light are cheesy to me. Low Light is one of the non-cheesiest ballads they've done. That's one of the reasons I like it so much.

Yellow Moon is no more "cheesy" than Automatic-era R.E.M, imo.

I bet id find that album fairly cheesy then

This is kinda bombastic, I think thats the word. Like love reign over me, bombastic.

I love how it starts to move in that direction and then pulls itself back just enough

Yeah. Wasn't there a review that said this song tried to be a little more "epic" than it was capable of? I'd agree with that. Without BoB's encouragement towards excess (which I'm wholly imagining based on a lot of our speculation) Pearl Jam wouldn't have reached for that, but they do here, and it's alright. I think their old subtlety wouldn't have worked on any of these songs, considering they all pretty much reach for a heightened level of drama. An album like Yield, and especially Binaural or Riot Act, would've been a bit more hesitant to do that. A song like NAIS could've been Sirens, with more caution thrown to the wind.

Yields got plenty of drama to spare. But binaural and riot act sure

Yeah, I think the Yield sparseness is not so much to do with a lack of "drama" but a lack of extra dramatic padding from production. If more production wizardry was added, much of the Yield material could've seemed more contrived than it did. I really do wonder what changed BoB's aesthetic values so much.

Yield is pretty produced, IMO. There's a lot of nuggets on that record. I think the difference was a) the type of things they were adding were better, and b) the songwriting was stronger, which I think can go a long way towards making additional pieces of a song feel good and appropriate. If you love the song, you're going to fill in the necessary blanks.

digster wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

harmless wrote:

Mike wrote:Neither Yellow Moon nor Low Light are cheesy to me. Low Light is one of the non-cheesiest ballads they've done. That's one of the reasons I like it so much.

Yellow Moon is no more "cheesy" than Automatic-era R.E.M, imo.

I bet id find that album fairly cheesy then

This is kinda bombastic, I think thats the word. Like love reign over me, bombastic.

I love how it starts to move in that direction and then pulls itself back just enough

Yeah. Wasn't there a review that said this song tried to be a little more "epic" than it was capable of? I'd agree with that. Without BoB's encouragement towards excess (which I'm wholly imagining based on a lot of our speculation) Pearl Jam wouldn't have reached for that, but they do here, and it's alright. I think their old subtlety wouldn't have worked on any of these songs, considering they all pretty much reach for a heightened level of drama. An album like Yield, and especially Binaural or Riot Act, would've been a bit more hesitant to do that. A song like NAIS could've been Sirens, with more caution thrown to the wind.

Yields got plenty of drama to spare. But binaural and riot act sure

Yeah, I think the Yield sparseness is not so much to do with a lack of "drama" but a lack of extra dramatic padding from production. If more production wizardry was added, much of the Yield material could've seemed more contrived than it did. I really do wonder what changed BoB's aesthetic values so much.

Yield is pretty produced, IMO. There's a lot of nuggets on that record. I think the difference was a) the type of things they were adding were better, and b) the songwriting was stronger, which I think can go a long way towards making additional pieces of a song feel good and appropriate. If you love the song, you're going to fill in the necessary blanks.

Yup. That also makes us forgive a lot of production excess in earlier work. I'm always surprised how produced Vs. sounds whenever I go back to it.

"Layered" and "produced" aren't synonymous with each other, either. Yield had plenty of overdubbing and layering, but each individual performance was very much not heavily produced. You take any individual part...say, Stone's guitar on DTE...and you can hear the intricacies of the tone, the occasional slips away from the beat, and the way the same riff played three different times will still vary slightly in volume, delivery, and even feel.

On the last two albums, each individual part has been heavily, heavily controlled, to the point of almost total mathematical precision. The humanity and space get traded in for perfection and casual listener engagement.

McParadigm wrote:"Layered" and "produced" aren't synonymous with each other, either. Yield had plenty of overdubbing and layering, but each individual performance was very much not heavily produced. You take any individual part...say, Stone's guitar on DTE...and you can hear the intricacies of the tone, the occasional slips away from the beat, and the way the same riff played three different times will still vary slightly in volume, delivery, and even feel.

On the last two albums, each individual part has been heavily, heavily controlled, to the point of almost total mathematical precision. The humanity and space get traded in for perfection and casual listener engagement.

Yeah that's what I mean when I use "produced", explained better than I could have.

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

harmless wrote:

McParadigm wrote:At one point in one of these convos, harmless described Pearl Jam as having "always been cheesy." It really lost its descriptive assistance for me, after that.

I think that was a flippant over-generalisation on my part that is in many ways true, but not in every way, and obviously not in the ways you're thinking of.

I think I understand your use of the word, and if I do then I'd tend to agree that it describes something that has inhabited most Pearl Jam releases...I'm just saying that it takes away any descriptive value when discussing Pearl Jam on, say, Yield, vs. Pearl Jam on Yellow Moon. Saying a song has "cheese," after that, is like saying it has guitars on it.

Yellow moon DOES have guitars! it works!

Right, but of all the "cheese" on this album, I'm not sure that Yellow Moon is worth my vitriol. The single most annoying and unnecessary thing on this album, for me, is that 60s Austin Powers warbly keyboard that invades "Lightning Bolt" for no reason at all, once or twice. The Springsteen-esque stuff in the outro I quite like. The happy chorus on Infallible is jarring, but I'm not blaming BoB for it. And apart from the piano being an uncomfortable BoB "stamp" on the end of the record, I don't mind it. I guess I don't hear "cheese" on Yellow Moon any more than I hear it on some of the Lost Dogs songs. Aside from a bit of extra gloss, I find this album to be quite comparable to Lost Dogs.

I love that effect in lightning bolt, you jerk!

What do you like about it? I'm interested. Bear in mind it appears only twice, and you could have virtually any other instrument in there to do the same thing. I don't even know what the sound is called, which is even more frustrating. Who thinks "I know, we need one of those 60s wobbly things in there, that'll be just the thing!"?

I like the spacey feel to it. It's atmospheric in that I literally think of the atmosphere, which fits in with a lot of the expansive, soaring moments in the song. It's also vaguely otherwordly, which I think also fits. Like that little seed that, if you just take care of it, will grow into something profound. I think it's a really great moment.

i too wish I knew what it was called.

McParadigm wrote:"Layered" and "produced" aren't synonymous with each other, either. Yield had plenty of overdubbing and layering, but each individual performance was very much not heavily produced. You take any individual part...say, Stone's guitar on DTE...and you can hear the intricacies of the tone, the occasional slips away from the beat, and the way the same riff played three different times will still vary slightly in volume, delivery, and even feel.

On the last two albums, each individual part has been heavily, heavily controlled, to the point of almost total mathematical precision. The humanity and space get traded in for perfection and casual listener engagement.

Fair point. The way they're doing it now does their songwriting and performances absolutely no favors. It makes the good parts of what they're doing duller and the bad parts more prominent. This song is a great example of that.

I still can't believe Mike had to fight to keep this on the record. I love this band but their song choices can be bonkers sometimes.

I cant believe this didnt close. WTF is up with FD doing that?

This song could be great. I would have appreciated stone taking the solos, preferably with a slide on hand.... then have the atmospheric music of Pendulum creep back in as a short hidden track to close it all out.

Fuck FD

is a yellow moon a thing?