The West Wing

[BootsToAsses]

I Got as far as episode 6 season one last night and I’d never really picked up on how spiky toby and bartlets relationship is before. He really does think he’s morally superior and goes about it all the wrong way. Consistently. And it’s only season one.

Pretty much. Is episode 6 the one where Toby finds out he wasn't first choice for Communications Director? Yeah, they clash all over that one.

[dimejinky99]

I Got as far as episode 6 season one last night and I’d never really picked up on how spiky toby and bartlets relationship is before. He really does think he’s morally superior and goes about it all the wrong way. Consistently. And it’s only season one.

Pretty much. Is episode 6 the one where Toby finds out he wasn't first choice for Communications Director? Yeah, they clash all over that one.

The very one. And in that or the previous episode they’re playing ball out front of the whitehouse and Toby tries to lecture him disguised as banter about his better angels and him being paralysed. Then later Bartlet in a prep for a speech keeps shutting Toby down about the gun issue they just passed even tho it’s a bullshit victory and empty piece of legislation. But even tho Toby is right and going about it all wrong he gets shut down and Leo is trying to settle both of them down and a few minutes later you see Mrs Landingham( ) telling CJ they’re being cross with each other and immediately you hear Bartlett shouting at Toby.

It’s a really really heavy dynamic that early on in a series but the two following episodes kinda lighten the whole tone and are mostly fun or funnier.

I’m watching this with different eyes now after all your thoughts the last few pages thanks lads.


Aaron fuckin Sorkin. Man. Such an immense talent

[dimejinky99]

* even the quiz at the card game at the start of the episode. Bartlet throws a pop quiz about there is one fruit that has it seeds outside...

Toby is the only one that sees his bet and raises it. And gets the death stare friendly but not really, off the President

And then it switches to parentheses then dw and on and on

[dimejinky99]

THEN the Supreme Court judge telling him he’d driven to the middle of the road and he was yellow.

I wait d for a Democrat and I got you

[BootsToAsses]

^It's some fairly heavy character stuff in those early episodes, and I love that they follow through with the Toby/Bartlet dynamic right through to the end. The post-Sorkin seasons were not perfect but I'm glad they did right by their relationship in the end.

I also like how conversations such as the one you just mentioned with the Supreme Court judge play into the 'Let Bartlet Be Bartlet' episode near the end of season 1 when all the staff are getting nowhere with their individual assignments and are feeling dejected, and then Leo calls Bartlet on it all at the end. He says exactly what the SC judge said, that Bartlet drives Leo to safe ground and never takes any risks.

It's a phenomenal debut season, all things considered. Except for Mandy, of course.

[dimejinky99]

Yeah I don’t love her either. I think the writings on point but the performance isn’t.

Watched In Excelses Deo last night.
The one about the homeless guy and Toby’s coat
It fuckin broke me. Especially Mrs Landingham telling Charlie why she doesn’t do Christmas and her two sons dying in ‘nam. Fuckin powerful stuff

[BootsToAsses]

Yeah I don’t love her either. I think the writings on point but the performance isn’t.

Watched In Excelses Deo last night.
The one about the homeless guy and Toby’s coat
It fuckin broke me. Especially Mrs Landingham telling Charlie why she doesn’t do Christmas and her two sons dying in ‘nam. Fuckin powerful stuff

And then Mrs Landingham goes to the funeral with Toby

BARTLET
Toby, if we start pulling strings like this, you don't think every homeless
veteran
would come out of the woodworks?

TOBY
I can only hope, sir

Have you listened to the West Wing Weekly podcast with Joshua Malina? He had Richard Schiff as his guest when they discussed this episode, and he gets super emotional and teary talking about it. It's brilliant stuff.

[dimejinky99]

Yeah I don’t love her either. I think the writings on point but the performance isn’t.

Watched In Excelses Deo last night.
The one about the homeless guy and Toby’s coat
It fuckin broke me. Especially Mrs Landingham telling Charlie why she doesn’t do Christmas and her two sons dying in ‘nam. Fuckin powerful stuff

And then Mrs Landingham goes to the funeral with Toby

BARTLET
Toby, if we start pulling strings like this, you don't think every homeless
veteran
would come out of the woodworks?

TOBY
I can only hope, sir

Have you listened to the West Wing Weekly podcast with Joshua Malina? He had Richard Schiff as his guest when they discussed this episode, and he gets super emotional and teary talking about it. It's brilliant stuff.

Keep meaning to listen to that I will thanks for the reminder.

[BootsToAsses]

Yeah I don’t love her either. I think the writings on point but the performance isn’t.

Watched In Excelses Deo last night.
The one about the homeless guy and Toby’s coat
It fuckin broke me. Especially Mrs Landingham telling Charlie why she doesn’t do Christmas and her two sons dying in ‘nam. Fuckin powerful stuff

And then Mrs Landingham goes to the funeral with Toby

BARTLET
Toby, if we start pulling strings like this, you don't think every homeless
veteran
would come out of the woodworks?

TOBY
I can only hope, sir

Have you listened to the West Wing Weekly podcast with Joshua Malina? He had Richard Schiff as his guest when they discussed this episode, and he gets super emotional and teary talking about it. It's brilliant stuff.

Keep meaning to listen to that I will thanks for the reminder.

No worries. It's really worth listening to. They've had pretty much everyone on the show apart from Sorkin so far.

[Norah]

The goatee is a terrible look on Charlie.

[BootsToAsses]

The goatee is a terrible look on Charlie.

Yup.
He's also tragically wasted in those last two seasons. The show needed that Charlie/Bartlet dynamic.

[dimejinky99]

I just heard a Star Wars reference in the West Wing

‘Tell me more, Obi Wan’

Toby almost mutters it to CJ on Air Force One I had to replay it with the subtitles on to make sure but it’s there:)

God I love the West Wing

[dimejinky99]

Wow. West Wing was talking about super colliders over a decade before they made one

[Monkey_Driven]

Wow. West Wing was talking about super colliders over a decade before they made one

Didn't the one in Geneva start construction in the late 90's? I remember it was under construction for quite awhile and opened like 10-12 years ago?

[dimejinky99]

You’re right. That makes it even more compelling, the guy saying to Sam he’s running out of time health wise but also that the US is getting left far behind.

Did they ever build one in the states?

[BootsToAsses]

The Two Bartlets/Night Five/Hartsfield's Landing/Dead Irish Writers

That's as good as it gets for me. My favourite disc whenever I do a rewatch

[dimejinky99]

Only did those episodes last night Just fantastic.
That part where Bartlets playing chess with Sam and tells him one day he’ll be president and to surround himself with the best. Almost coaching him. Really brilliant.

[Monkey_Driven]

You’re right. That makes it even more compelling, the guy saying to Sam he’s running out of time health wise but also that the US is getting left far behind.

Did they ever build one in the states?

They started to build one in Texas but I don't think they ever got far.

[BootsToAsses]

Only did those episodes last night Just fantastic.
That part where Bartlets playing chess with Sam and tells him one day he’ll be president and to surround himself with the best. Almost coaching him. Really brilliant.

Yeah, that was great. I love that the two chess games are very different. He's teaching/coaching Sam, pushing him to think like a president might. And then the game with Toby is fraught with tension and Toby can't help but needle Bartlet despite his apologies for the last conversation they had.

Poor David Weaton

[dimejinky99]

Toby talking to his two babies. That’d leave you in tears. Even eclipses what’s happening with Zoe but talk about writing. Bringing those elements to a head and then handing over to the speaker cos theres no Vice President. It doesn’t get better than West Wing.

This run of episodes also is kind of a huge payoff for Bartlet amd tobys earlier frustrations with each other. Mostly seen from Toby’s POV. They know have a new common ground.