Red Mosquito

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'd also argue that anyone saying that artists need to be humble and that Kanye is a douche because he essentially just has really high self-esteem is displaying an ignorance of what rap music is all about.

I always thought he was just really insecure.... If you're good - you don't need to tell the world that you're good. They'll be able to tell that for themselves

Of course he's insecure, but that's part of what makes him compelling. And one needs to understand that bravado is an integral part of rap. It's the music of an oppressed people expressing their value, asserting their self-worth. It is the opposite position of most rock music, which is often filled with self-loathing and "humility," which is just a manifiestation of ruling class ennui.

Off topic slightly, but isn't it sad that its so binary though? Like its hard to be a "rock out with your cock out" rock star or a "humble" black rapper because society brings all these preconceived notions of what these genres must be? Its so limiting. Hopefully that's slowly changing.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'd also argue that anyone saying that artists need to be humble and that Kanye is a douche because he essentially just has really high self-esteem is displaying an ignorance of what rap music is all about.

I always thought he was just really insecure.... If you're good - you don't need to tell the world that you're good. They'll be able to tell that for themselves

Of course he's insecure, but that's part of what makes him compelling. And one needs to understand that bravado is an integral part of rap. It's the music of an oppressed people expressing their value, asserting their self-worth. It is the opposite position of most rock music, which is often filled with self-loathing and "humility," which is just a manifiestation of ruling class ennui.

That "We Don't Care" is the first song on the first Kanye album is of no small significance, not all unlike The Notorious B.I.G. dropping "Juicy" as his leadoff single -- these songs really explain everything you need to know about why access to money, fame, and influence is such a victory for these artists, and why it factors into their artistry as it does. I would submit that there is in fact a great deal of humility in Kanye's catalog (especially on the first two records, and on songs like "Everything I Am" and "Welcome to Heartbreak"), and that it's specifically his moments of insecurity that single him out and earn him his reputation, as opposed to the sheer bravado (which we're accustomed to by now). Jay-Z yammers on about being the best rapper alive incessantly without ever breaking from character, and we simply accept it as part of his schtick. Kanye's total package contains enough self-doubt, nostalgia, and vulnerability for people to realize a level of humanity that is unique to him, yet not enough for them to divorce those things from his moments of confidence, so they end up perceiving him as something of a loud-mouthed drama queen. Which isn't entirely inaccurate -- he does say some fucked up things sometimes -- but it's not sufficient pigeonholing. His broad-spectrum emotionality is, as you say, part of why he's a compelling artist, but it's also why I can identify with him more than I identify with guys who don't let their guard down once in a while.

BurtReynolds wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'd also argue that anyone saying that artists need to be humble and that Kanye is a douche because he essentially just has really high self-esteem is displaying an ignorance of what rap music is all about.

I always thought he was just really insecure.... If you're good - you don't need to tell the world that you're good. They'll be able to tell that for themselves

Of course he's insecure, but that's part of what makes him compelling. And one needs to understand that bravado is an integral part of rap. It's the music of an oppressed people expressing their value, asserting their self-worth. It is the opposite position of most rock music, which is often filled with self-loathing and "humility," which is just a manifiestation of ruling class ennui.

Off topic slightly, but isn't it sad that its so binary though? Like its hard to be a "rock out with your cock out" rock star or a "humble" black rapper because society brings all these preconceived notions of what these genres must be? Its so limiting. Hopefully that's slowly changing.

Being that it's largely an unconscious social phenomenon, I think it will only change as quickly as society does.

I think the last time I saw all five members of my immediate family happily interacting with each other was towards the end of my sister's wedding when we were all dancing to Homecoming.

Kevin Davis wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'd also argue that anyone saying that artists need to be humble and that Kanye is a douche because he essentially just has really high self-esteem is displaying an ignorance of what rap music is all about.

I always thought he was just really insecure.... If you're good - you don't need to tell the world that you're good. They'll be able to tell that for themselves

Of course he's insecure, but that's part of what makes him compelling. And one needs to understand that bravado is an integral part of rap. It's the music of an oppressed people expressing their value, asserting their self-worth. It is the opposite position of most rock music, which is often filled with self-loathing and "humility," which is just a manifiestation of ruling class ennui.

That "We Don't Care" is the first song on the first Kanye album is of no small significance, not all unlike The Notorious B.I.G. dropping "Juicy" as his leadoff single -- these songs really explain everything you need to know about why access to money, fame, and influence is such a victory for these artists, and why it factors into their artistry as it does. I would submit that there is in fact a great deal of humility in Kanye's catalog (especially on the first two records, and on songs like "Everything I Am" and "Welcome to Heartbreak"), and that it's specifically his moments of insecurity that single him out and earn him his reputation, as opposed to the sheer bravado (which we're accustomed to by now). Jay-Z yammers on about being the best rapper alive incessantly without ever breaking from character, and we simply accept it as part of his schtick. Kanye's total package contains enough self-doubt, nostalgia, and vulnerability for people to realize a level of humanity that is unique to him, yet not enough for them to divorce those things from his moments of confidence, so they end up perceiving him as something of a loud-mouthed drama queen. Which isn't entirely inaccurate -- he does say some fucked up things sometimes -- but it's not sufficient pigeonholing. His broad-spectrum emotionality is, as you say, part of why he's a compelling artist, but it's also why I can identify with him more than I identify with guys who don't let their guard down once in a while.

Yeah, totally. You're all right, KD.

This is all part of why I think Yeezus is such a fascinating album. Through a narrative about a famous man not dissimilar from Kanye himself, he subtly expresses his growing dissatisfaction with fame and money alone. That was the first step, but now he needs deeper fulfillment, which is why the album ends as it does with the repeated line "Bound to falling in love." Also significant that the video is an ode to his newfound love with Kim K. It's beautiful.

Kevin Davis wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'd also argue that anyone saying that artists need to be humble and that Kanye is a douche because he essentially just has really high self-esteem is displaying an ignorance of what rap music is all about.

I always thought he was just really insecure.... If you're good - you don't need to tell the world that you're good. They'll be able to tell that for themselves

Of course he's insecure, but that's part of what makes him compelling. And one needs to understand that bravado is an integral part of rap. It's the music of an oppressed people expressing their value, asserting their self-worth. It is the opposite position of most rock music, which is often filled with self-loathing and "humility," which is just a manifiestation of ruling class ennui.

That "We Don't Care" is the first song on the first Kanye album is of no small significance, not all unlike The Notorious B.I.G. dropping "Juicy" as his leadoff single -- these songs really explain everything you need to know about why access to money, fame, and influence is such a victory for these artists, and why it factors into their artistry as it does. I would submit that there is in fact a great deal of humility in Kanye's catalog (especially on the first two records, and on songs like "Everything I Am" and "Welcome to Heartbreak"), and that it's specifically his moments of insecurity that single him out and earn him his reputation, as opposed to the sheer bravado (which we're accustomed to by now). Jay-Z yammers on about being the best rapper alive incessantly without ever breaking from character, and we simply accept it as part of his schtick. Kanye's total package contains enough self-doubt, nostalgia, and vulnerability for people to realize a level of humanity that is unique to him, yet not enough for them to divorce those things from his moments of confidence, so they end up perceiving him as something of a loud-mouthed drama queen. Which isn't entirely inaccurate -- he does say some fucked up things sometimes -- but it's not sufficient pigeonholing. His broad-spectrum emotionality is, as you say, part of why he's a compelling artist, but it's also why I can identify with him more than I identify with guys who don't let their guard down once in a while.

I think I can get on board with this...

Lament wrote:I think the last time I saw all five members of my immediate family happily interacting with each other was towards the end of my sister's wedding when we were all dancing to Homecoming.

I can definitely Identify with this... but it was my sister's wedding, and it was some bro-country shit... The moment was good, but their music still sucked ass!

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I'd also argue that anyone saying that artists need to be humble and that Kanye is a douche because he essentially just has really high self-esteem is displaying an ignorance of what rap music is all about.

I can't speak for those people, whoever they are. My problems with Kanye have nothing to do with his high self-esteem.

My only real problem with Kanye is his stupid face. Isn't it just the most punchable thing you've ever seen? Like, if he had any other face, I'd probably love him.

BurtReynolds wrote:My only real problem with Kanye is his stupid face. Isn't it just the most punchable thing you've ever seen? Like, if he had any other face, I'd probably love him.

What if he had Nancy Grace's face?

tommymtcom wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:My only real problem with Kanye is his stupid face. Isn't it just the most punchable thing you've ever seen? Like, if he had any other face, I'd probably love him.

What if he had Nancy Grace's face?

I'm trying to eat, Tommy.

BurtReynolds wrote:

tommymtcom wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:My only real problem with Kanye is his stupid face. Isn't it just the most punchable thing you've ever seen? Like, if he had any other face, I'd probably love him.

What if he had Nancy Grace's face?

I'm trying to eat, Tommy.

Then you should probably get out of this thread, post haste!

Do you think Kanye or Jay Z will let their daughters listen to Monster?

I would let my daughters listen to Monster

Yeah me too

You may be the king but watch the queen conquer

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I would let my daughters listen to Monster

The R.E.M. album? Sure, why not? It's pretty good. But I'd much rather them listen to New Adventures in Hi-Fi. But you can't push that stuff on your kids, y'know? You gotta let them find it for themselves. Otherwise they turn out like Stip and hate the Beatles.

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I would let my daughters listen to Monster

The R.E.M. album? Sure, why not? It's pretty good. But I'd much rather them listen to New Adventures in Hi-Fi. But you can't push that stuff on your kids, y'know? You gotta let them find it for themselves. Otherwise they turn out like Stip and hate the Beatles.

Please stop talking about your irrelevant dad rock in the Kanye thread

Please stop using the term dad rock in all threads

Ok dad