Red Mosquito

McParadigm wrote:

stip wrote:The whole process of growing up is basically a journey of liking David Lee Roth, deciding you're too cool to like David Lee Roth, and then realizing you'll be happier living in a world where liking Davi Lee Roth is okay.

He's great. My all time favorite cartoon.

Link?

verb_to_trust wrote:Where does Gary Cherone fit into this equation?

he doesn't fit into any equation.

Well most of the band seemed to be very satisfied with their latest records, i remember Mike thinking of Sirens as one of their best works for example.
I don't think they delegated a substantial part of the creative process to O'Brien as a consequence of caring less. I think it was a consequence of their everlasting search for a dynamic they could be satisfied with.
I think they spent more time talking about how well they function as band than the actual music they were promoting when the last 2 albums where released. I got the impression that they where trying to sell the idea that (musically) PJ is finally the band it was always supposed to be. I'm not entirely convinced they buy into their own bs, but i am inclined to think they try.
I'm sure the dynamic they settled with is sensibly limiting their creativity but i can't imagine it being much different for them. Band's rarely last that long without imploding.
Had they broken up 15 years ago and reunited if and when they felt they had something interesting to say artistically, there could have been some more interesting records from the band and possibly from the guys individually.
I think they'll keep on performing more or less regularly for 20 years like the Stones, i think they'll also keep on recording, but i don't think anything particularly interesting is much of a possibility.

Mine wrote:Well most of the band seemed to be very satisfied with their latest records, i remember Mike thinking of Sirens as one of their best works for example.
I don't think they delegated a substantial part of the creative process to O'Brien as a consequence of caring less. I think it was a consequence of their everlasting search for a dynamic they could be satisfied with.
I think they spent more time talking about how well they function as band than the actual music they were promoting when the last 2 albums where released. I got the impression that they where trying to sell the idea that (musically) PJ is finally the band it was always supposed to be. I'm not entirely convinced they buy into their own bs, but i am inclined to think they try.
I'm sure the dynamic they settled with is sensibly limiting their creativity but i can't imagine it being much different for them. Band's rarely last that long without imploding.
Had they broken up 15 years ago and reunited if and when they felt they had something interesting to say artistically, there could have been some more interesting records from the band and possibly from the guys individually.
I think they'll keep on performing more or less regularly for 20 years like the Stones, i think they'll also keep on recording, but i don't think anything particularly interesting is much of a possibility.

Interesting observation

Mine wrote:Well most of the band seemed to be very satisfied with their latest records, i remember Mike thinking of Sirens as one of their best works for example.
I don't think they delegated a substantial part of the creative process to O'Brien as a consequence of caring less. I think it was a consequence of their everlasting search for a dynamic they could be satisfied with.
I think they spent more time talking about how well they function as band than the actual music they were promoting when the last 2 albums where released. I got the impression that they where trying to sell the idea that (musically) PJ is finally the band it was always supposed to be. I'm not entirely convinced they buy into their own bs, but i am inclined to think they try.
I'm sure the dynamic they settled with is sensibly limiting their creativity but i can't imagine it being much different for them. Band's rarely last that long without imploding.
Had they broken up 15 years ago and reunited if and when they felt they had something interesting to say artistically, there could have been some more interesting records from the band and possibly from the guys individually.
I think they'll keep on performing more or less regularly for 20 years like the Stones, i think they'll also keep on recording, but i don't think anything particularly interesting is much of a possibility.

I'm pretty sure that Jeff is not too happy with the band's current state and output. He has been expressing some concers in interviews leading up to LB (in 2012/2013 orso). If someone can post links to those interviews....
I don't think they are trying to sell us the idea that they are finally the band they always wanted to be. Because they have been saying that since the beginning . I do agree with them being settled more, not only in their private lives but also within the band. My biggest complain that they don't invest that much time anymore in the band. For me it's ok wo wait 3/4 years for a new record at this point in their career. People complain that Brendan O'Brien has too much creative control, and that's the problem. The band doesn't work as hard on the songs as they used to do, leaving way more space for BOB. He's actually responsible for making BS/LB a better record instead of worse. He's a fine producer but alse the one where PJ gets too comfortable. Let me qoute myself from an earlier thread: I consider 'Lightning Bolt' the first truly transitional record the band has ever made. Not confusing because you're entering new territory but because you have no idea on where to go next. In a way it's like The Who's 'face dances', 'Tattoo You' by 'The Rolling Stones'. or 'Life' by Neil Young & Crazy Horse, 'Human Touch' by Springsteen or 'End hits' by Fugazi and some more. The problem with 'transitional' records is not that there are no question or exclamation marks, it's that there are warning signs.
The band is reinventing themselves and it could very well be that they have no idea where to go next. Things could stay the same and will get another logical extension of Backspacer or thing could change, more power to Jeff or different producer etc...Either way, it's an uncertain time...so: achtung! achtung baby!!

I think this is very well said and agree with a lot of it. Another vote for Jeff from me. The transitional record period is an interesting view.

Also, I blame BoB as much as the next guy... I don't like a lot of what he does in terms of how the album ends up sounding. But the band is just as much at fault. It's up to them to give him as much say-so as he gets, which was evident in the Vitalogy and No Code days. Now it's swung back the other way where it sounds like he tells them what he wants. If the band put its foot down, I have no doubt he'd listen and do as they say... they're paying him in the end. They just don't do it enough, I feel like... or like joostone just said, they just don't know what they are looking for in a finished product. They give BoB the gift, and he wraps it in a pretty bow.

bodysnatcher wrote:Another vote for Jeff from me.

what are you voting for?

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

bodysnatcher wrote:Another vote for Jeff from me.

what are you voting for?

Jeff

edit: double post

bodysnatcher wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

bodysnatcher wrote:Another vote for Jeff from me.

what are you voting for?

Jeff

But for what?

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

bodysnatcher wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

bodysnatcher wrote:Another vote for Jeff from me.

what are you voting for?

Jeff

But for what?

for Jeff

joostone wrote:

Mine wrote:Well most of the band seemed to be very satisfied with their latest records, i remember Mike thinking of Sirens as one of their best works for example.
I don't think they delegated a substantial part of the creative process to O'Brien as a consequence of caring less. I think it was a consequence of their everlasting search for a dynamic they could be satisfied with.
I think they spent more time talking about how well they function as band than the actual music they were promoting when the last 2 albums where released. I got the impression that they where trying to sell the idea that (musically) PJ is finally the band it was always supposed to be. I'm not entirely convinced they buy into their own bs, but i am inclined to think they try.
I'm sure the dynamic they settled with is sensibly limiting their creativity but i can't imagine it being much different for them. Band's rarely last that long without imploding.
Had they broken up 15 years ago and reunited if and when they felt they had something interesting to say artistically, there could have been some more interesting records from the band and possibly from the guys individually.
I think they'll keep on performing more or less regularly for 20 years like the Stones, i think they'll also keep on recording, but i don't think anything particularly interesting is much of a possibility.

I'm pretty sure that Jeff is not too happy with the band's current state and output. He has been expressing some concers in interviews leading up to LB (in 2012/2013 orso). If someone can post links to those interviews....
I don't think they are trying to sell us the idea that they are finally the band they always wanted to be. Because they have been saying that since the beginning . I do agree with them being settled more, not only in their private lives but also within the band. My biggest complain that they don't invest that much time anymore in the band. For me it's ok wo wait 3/4 years for a new record at this point in their career. People complain that Brendan O'Brien has too much creative control, and that's the problem. The band doesn't work as hard on the songs as they used to do, leaving way more space for BOB. He's actually responsible for making BS/LB a better record instead of worse. He's a fine producer but alse the one where PJ gets too comfortable. Let me qoute myself from an earlier thread: I consider 'Lightning Bolt' the first truly transitional record the band has ever made. Not confusing because you're entering new territory but because you have no idea on where to go next. In a way it's like The Who's 'face dances', 'Tattoo You' by 'The Rolling Stones'. or 'Life' by Neil Young & Crazy Horse, 'Human Touch' by Springsteen or 'End hits' by Fugazi and some more. The problem with 'transitional' records is not that there are no question or exclamation marks, it's that there are warning signs.
The band is reinventing themselves and it could very well be that they have no idea where to go next. Things could stay the same and will get another logical extension of Backspacer or thing could change, more power to Jeff or different producer etc...Either way, it's an uncertain time...so: achtung! achtung baby!!

Well he has more songs on LB than he usually does on PJ records.

I also think they want to maintain a level of relevance, but are unwilling to invest themselves in the amount of promotional mania that people they think of as peers (U2, Bruce) have used to achieve exactly that.

So they get into this logic instead that the album itself might achieve that relevance, if it's sufficiently inviting and inoffensive to all "types" and parties. There are some ST and Backspacer interviews where this mindset comes across a bit. But inviting isn't a creative decision-making process they come by honestly, so they gravitate towards having a producer who can help with that.

BurtReynolds wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

bodysnatcher wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

bodysnatcher wrote:Another vote for Jeff from me.

what are you voting for?

Jeff

But for what?

for Jeff

Exactly

McParadigm wrote:I also think they want to maintain a level of relevance, but are unwilling to invest themselves in the amount of promotional mania that people they think of as peers (U2, Bruce) have used to achieve exactly that.

So they get into this logic instead that the album itself might achieve that relevance, if it's sufficiently inviting and inoffensive to all "types" and parties. There are some ST and Backspacer interviews where this mindset comes across a bit. But inviting isn't a creative decision-making process they come by honestly, so they gravitate towards having a producer who can help with that.

I'd agree with this

McParadigm wrote:I also think they want to maintain a level of relevance, but are unwilling to invest themselves in the amount of promotional mania that people they think of as peers (U2, Bruce) have used to achieve exactly that.

So they get into this logic instead that the album itself might achieve that relevance, if it's sufficiently inviting and inoffensive to all "types" and parties. There are some ST and Backspacer interviews where this mindset comes across a bit. But inviting isn't a creative decision-making process they come by honestly, so they gravitate towards having a producer who can help with that.

essentially the return to form thing

the best thing PJ can do for their next album is let Stone & Jeff have 100% control over the creative direction and music. Eddie can contribute 0% music and only lyrics to songs

mike can contribute to the music

Mine wrote:

McParadigm wrote:I also think they want to maintain a level of relevance, but are unwilling to invest themselves in the amount of promotional mania that people they think of as peers (U2, Bruce) have used to achieve exactly that.

So they get into this logic instead that the album itself might achieve that relevance, if it's sufficiently inviting and inoffensive to all "types" and parties. There are some ST and Backspacer interviews where this mindset comes across a bit. But inviting isn't a creative decision-making process they come by honestly, so they gravitate towards having a producer who can help with that.

essentially the return to form thing

I'd like them to return to form with the likes of songs like: Sleight Of Hand, Can't Keep, Rival, Insignificance, Parting Ways, Green Disease, Cropduster, Ghost, and NAIS.

I don't want rehashes of those songs, but I thought the band was on an interesting track after Yield. They took an odd turn that gave us Binaural and Riot Act, and I wouldn't mind them exploring down that path again.

pappas wrote:the best thing PJ can do for their next album is let Stone & Jeff have 100% control over the creative direction and music. Eddie can contribute 0% music and only lyrics to songs

mike can contribute to the music

also matt can play the drums.

darth_vedder wrote:They took an odd turn that gave us Binaural and Riot Act, and I wouldn't mind them exploring down that path again.

Well then it wouldn't be an "odd turn" any more would it? Going by your odd turn idea, Backspacer is the closest to achieving that theory. It was certainly something they hadn't committed to doing before.