Red Mosquito

From the polling I've been reading Smoltz is in this year.

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:

philpritchard wrote:Even if some you leave the obvious steroid guys out (Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, McGwire) there should still be more than ten guys going in (Johnson, Pedro, Schilling, Mussina, Smoltz, Biggio, Bagwell, Piazza, Raines, Trammell, Walker, Edgar Martinez) with a few more who at least deserve some consideration (Kent, Sheffield).

I'm not so sure Martinez or Bagwell, but I think you can make a solid case for the others even if I don't agree.

Did you mean Larry Walker?

Yeah.

I'm having a hard time with that one and I'm a Rockies fan. His split number away from CO really bother me. Make your case?

The splits are pretty significant, but here's one in particular that I've always loved:

1997 MVP season:
Home OPS - 1.169
Away OPS - 1.176

Also, take a look at his wRC+, which adjusts for park and era: six years of 150 or higher (and one at 149), career total of 140 (as an outfield comp, Reggie Jackson's is 139) while providing very good defense and baserunning.

His 68.9 fWAR ranks him 65th all-time. On a per-600 plate appearance basis, his fWAR puts him ahead of Rickey Henderson, Carl Yastrzemski, and Roberto Clemente, and well ahead of contemporaries like Manny Ramirez, Ken Griffey Jr. and Andruw Jones.

The only legitimate argument I can think of is that the injuries held him back from compiling the kind of impressive counting stats the voters generally look for.

Unit and Pedro above 90%

Smoltz around 85%

Biggio 78%

[all guesses]

Unit, Pedro, Biggio, Smoltz...waiting on numbers!

Cheers to Smoltz, my second favorite Brave during their run. I knew he would get in but wasn't sure if he would have been a first balloter.

Biff Pocoroba wrote:Cheers to Smoltz, my second favorite Brave during their run. I knew he would get in but wasn't sure if he would have been a first balloter.

good day for us braves fans. what do your co-workers think about this news, biff?

Glad 29 is in.

Tim "Rock" Raines maybe should be in I think. Not completely sure, but he was a damned good lead off man.

I'm glad Biggio got in, should have gotten in last year but oh well. It is kind of depressing knowing that guys like Raines and Trammell are still waiting, probably forever, though.

Jason Witten has to be a lock, right?

There are way too many people in the Baseball Hall of Fame at this point. All you have to do is be above average for long enough to accrue big numbers. There's not really any greatness required.

Lament wrote:There are way too many people in the Baseball Hall of Fame at this point. All you have to do is be above average for long enough to accrue big numbers. There's not really any greatness required.

There are 25,424 players who have played in at least one major league game. There are 215 MLB players in the Baseball Hall of Fame. So... the top 0.8% of all players to make the MLB end up becoming Hall of Famers. I think that's a pretty good standard for greatness.

If anything, 215 players seems low given that we're dealing with 140 years of MLB history.

Lament wrote:There are way too many people in the Baseball Hall of Fame at this point. All you have to do is be above average for long enough to accrue big numbers. There's not really any greatness required.

Are you a voting member of the Veteran's Committee?

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Lament wrote:There are way too many people in the Baseball Hall of Fame at this point. All you have to do is be above average for long enough to accrue big numbers. There's not really any greatness required.

Are you a voting member of the Veteran's Committee?

No. I just don't think that many people deserve an honor that high. If being in the HOF is supposed to be the highest personal achievement for a career, I think it should be as small a group as possible. You should be a guy who, at some point in your career, there wouldn't have been a single player alive who your team would have traded you for. You can't say that about Smoltz or Biggio. I think you should be able to put up a great collection of numbers without being a Hall of Famer.

Orpheus wrote:Jason Witten has to be a lock, right?

Absolutely. I think he's second to Gonzalez in receptions and receiving yards by a TE. Although he has surprisingly few TDs.

Lament wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Lament wrote:There are way too many people in the Baseball Hall of Fame at this point. All you have to do is be above average for long enough to accrue big numbers. There's not really any greatness required.

Are you a voting member of the Veteran's Committee?

No. I just don't think that many people deserve an honor that high. If being in the HOF is supposed to be the highest personal achievement for a career, I think it should be as small a group as possible. You should be a guy who, at some point in your career, there wouldn't have been a single player alive who your team would have traded you for. You can't say that about Smoltz or Biggio. I think you should be able to put up a great collection of numbers without being a Hall of Famer.

So what are you saying, 9 people in the hall?

Fuck You Jobu wrote:So what are you saying, 9 people in the hall?

No, just that personally I'd prefer if the HOF were reserved for the Mays and Seavers and Pedros of the world, at the expense of the Younts and Biggios and Blylevens.

Lament wrote:

Fuck You Jobu wrote:So what are you saying, 9 people in the hall?

No, just that personally I'd prefer if the HOF were reserved for the Mays and Seavers and Pedros of the world, at the expense of the Younts and Biggios and Blylevens.

If you look at the other sports, baseball is much stricter about who gets in the Hall of Fame. As much as some notable omissions are aggravating, I think they basically let the right amount of people in.

I have no problem with the number of people in the Baseball Hall of Fame. I think it's about right. (Like I said earlier... 140 years of baseball and 215 players in the Hall seems appropriately strict.)

What bothers me is the arbitrary criteria voters invent to keep worthy players out. The majority of voters pick and choose who they want to have in the Hall and then work backwards to back up why they feel that way. That's why you have guys like Jon Heyman voting for Don Mattingly because of his high peak while keeping Larry Walker off because he missed so much time due to injuries. There's so much intellectual dishonesty among the voters that it completely discredits the Hall.

The voting process is probably the worst part of the hall of fame. They almost need a group of curators for that job.

The journalist aspect of the whole thing is just sort of nonsensical.

In 140 years to only have 215 players enshrined is a pretty good number to me it's pretty difficult to have any sort of perfect system.

I just find it a little ridiculous that the all time hits leader isn't in the nations museum of baseball even with all his lies and comical behavior.

They could have a whole wing dedicated to miscreants, cheating and nefarious behavior.

One day I'm bringing my kid, we're going to talk baseball and we will discuss honorable behavior and the lack thereof.

I'm just not sure a lot of guys in the steroid era, even if they have numbers are really hall of famers. Bonds and Clemens are...I really don't feel like Mcgwire or Sosa belong. Good players, not Hall of Famers.

Electromatic wrote:The voting process is probably the worst part of the hall of fame. They almost need a group of curators for that job.

The journalist aspect of the whole thing is just sort of nonsensical.

In 140 years to only have 215 players enshrined is a pretty good number to me it's pretty difficult to have any sort of perfect system.

I just find it a little ridiculous that the all time hits leader isn't in the nations museum of baseball even with all his lies and comical behavior.

They could have a whole wing dedicated to miscreants, cheating and nefarious behavior.

One day I'm bringing my kid, we're going to talk baseball and we will discuss honorable behavior and the lack thereof.

I'm just not sure a lot of guys in the steroid era, even if they have numbers are really hall of famers. Bonds and Clemens are...I really don't feel like Mcgwire or Sosa belong. Good players, not Hall of Famers.

McGwire and Sosa are close enough to borderline candidates that I can understand not voting for them. There's just no justification for leaving Bagwell off, regardless of the era he played in.