Systemic / Institutional / Societal Racism

[Rob]

See, you're doing it right there. You are saying that the only way that someone can acknowledge history without being a racist is to ALSO believe that we haven't gotten past it and that we have to continue to "deal with it". This is a very common conflation, whether you realize you are doing it or not.

So it’s widely accepted that our history is fucked up, most everyone is in agreement. I am not suggesting what is or isn’t the right way to go about it, but some (many) say it’s over, nothing left to do. Should people push back against that or does that make someone an annoying activist?

[Rob]

Is the legacy of slavery/racism over and dealt with, or not?

[BurtReynolds]

People can talk about what the ramifications are and what to do about it all day.

But starting with an uncontroversial statement that everyone agrees with, then, mid argument, changing the definition of that statement to include other things that people may not agree with, is bad argumentation. And in the case of a lot of these people, this is done on purpose.

[Rob]

Seems to me like you’re saying that everyone agrees we have a dark history with ramifications, and you’re attacking the people who think we should discuss/correct that, while saying it’s perfectly fine to believe it’s over and done with. That doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t see where definitions are changing. I (you) see people defining our history as problematic. Some want to ignore it (or just reject it), and you’re saying we shouldn’t call them out? You yourself are suggesting the legacy of our past is still with us.

[BurtReynolds]

Seems to me like you’re saying that everyone agrees we have a dark history with ramifications

Yeah basically. I'm saying that most agree that things like past racism and other dark parts of history should be taught, that there are multiple ways of doing that, and that some are more or less destructive than others.

you’re attacking the people who think we should discuss/correct that, while saying it’s perfectly fine to believe it’s over and done with

No, I'm saying that many people think that there is only one logical conclusion to that first point, and they present themselves as the final authority on the matter, and that people who disagree with them don't actually agree with the first point, which is all untrue. I also think that many of them have less than pure motives for doing this.

I'm also saying that they try to smuggle all these hidden assumptions into uncontroversial positions in an attempt to make the positions they really want to promote seem more accepted, and to make themselves seem like the REAL gatekeepers of the original uncontroversial opinion.

[B]

Some people get extremely defensive when you point out racial bias. Lot of personal guilt driving their emotions, I'm guessing.

[Rob]

Seems to me like you’re saying that everyone agrees we have a dark history with ramifications

Yeah basically. I'm saying that most agree that things like past racism and other dark parts of history should be taught, that there are multiple ways of doing that, and that some are more or less destructive than others.

you’re attacking the people who think we should discuss/correct that, while saying it’s perfectly fine to believe it’s over and done with

No, I'm saying that many people think that there is only one logical conclusion to that first point, and they present themselves as the final authority on the matter, and that people who disagree with them don't actually agree with the first point, which is all untrue. I also think that many of them have less than pure motives for doing this.

I'm also saying that they try to smuggle all these hidden assumptions into uncontroversial positions in an attempt to make the positions they really want to promote seem more accepted, and to make themselves seem like the REAL gatekeepers of the original uncontroversial opinion.

I would challenge this. It may be true that “many” people believe there is only one way to handle this, but it’s a small % who are extreme in their views. There’s many more who don’t think about it and don’t think anything should be done, which also fits into your “only one way to handle it” argument. All I am suggesting is that it should be dealt with somehow. And people who want to ignore the issue should reconsider.

[simple schoolboy]

Seems to me like you’re saying that everyone agrees we have a dark history with ramifications

Yeah basically. I'm saying that most agree that things like past racism and other dark parts of history should be taught, that there are multiple ways of doing that, and that some are more or less destructive than others.

you’re attacking the people who think we should discuss/correct that, while saying it’s perfectly fine to believe it’s over and done with

No, I'm saying that many people think that there is only one logical conclusion to that first point, and they present themselves as the final authority on the matter, and that people who disagree with them don't actually agree with the first point, which is all untrue. I also think that many of them have less than pure motives for doing this.

I'm also saying that they try to smuggle all these hidden assumptions into uncontroversial positions in an attempt to make the positions they really want to promote seem more accepted, and to make themselves seem like the REAL gatekeepers of the original uncontroversial opinion.

[BurtReynolds]

yeah I didn't want to repost the jpg.

[Mickey]

I still resent that I'm technically credited with starting this thread.

[Rob]

Seems to me like you’re saying that everyone agrees we have a dark history with ramifications

Yeah basically. I'm saying that most agree that things like past racism and other dark parts of history should be taught, that there are multiple ways of doing that, and that some are more or less destructive than others.

you’re attacking the people who think we should discuss/correct that, while saying it’s perfectly fine to believe it’s over and done with

No, I'm saying that many people think that there is only one logical conclusion to that first point, and they present themselves as the final authority on the matter, and that people who disagree with them don't actually agree with the first point, which is all untrue. I also think that many of them have less than pure motives for doing this.

I'm also saying that they try to smuggle all these hidden assumptions into uncontroversial positions in an attempt to make the positions they really want to promote seem more accepted, and to make themselves seem like the REAL gatekeepers of the original uncontroversial opinion.

I understand what the picture means, I’m not really even disagreeing with you. Should the people who deny/ignore be called out or not? I’m not saying they should be called out the way the activists do, but you are saying the history is problematic and then defending people who are over it. Guide me, Burt. Where am I wrong? I am not one of those activists who see this as a black & white issue.

[Rob]

So I quoted simple schoolboy instead of Burt but whatever

[Bi_3]

Ontario's new Grade 9 curriculum preaches 'subjective' nature of mathematics
New curriculum claims to address historical use of math to "normalize racism" and "marginalization of non-Eurocentric knowledge"


“Teaching kids their history” instead of… math

[McParadigm]

?

The Texas Senate on Friday passed legislation that would end requirements that public schools include writings on women’s suffrage and the civil rights movement in social studies classes.

Among the figures whose works would be dropped: Susan B. Anthony, Cesar Chavez, and Martin Luther King Jr., whose “I Have a Dream"speech and “Letter from a Birmingham Jail” would no longer make the curriculum cut.

The bill (S.B. 3), which was passed on a vote of 18 to 4, now is stalled because the House can’t achieve a quorum while a breakaway group of Democrats is out of the state. The special session is set to end on Aug. 6.

It would remove more than two dozen teaching requirements from a new law (H.B 3979) that bars the teaching of critical race theory, an academic framework exploring racism’s shaping of the country.

That law included a list of historic figures, events and documents required for inclusion in social studies classes. The Senate-passed bill would remove most mentions of people of color and women from those requirements, along with a requirement that students be taught about the history of white supremacy and “the ways in which it is morally wrong.”

The measure also would bar the teaching of the 1619 Project— a New York Times initiative exploring U.S. history starting at the date enslaved people arrived in the English colonies.

Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R), who presides over the Senate, said in a statement after the vote that “Senate Bill 3 will make certain that critical race philosophies including the debunked 1619 founding myth, are removed from our school curriculums statewide.”

“Parents want their students to learn how to think critically, not be indoctrinated by the ridiculous leftist narrative that America and our Constitution are rooted in racism,” Patrick said.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/social-ju ... vil-rights

[Bi_3]

?

The Texas Senate on Friday passed legislation that would end requirements that public schools include writings on women’s suffrage and the civil rights movement in social studies classes.

Among the figures whose works would be dropped: Susan B. Anthony, Cesar Chavez, and Martin Luther King Jr., whose “I Have a Dream"speech and “Letter from a Birmingham Jail” would no longer make the curriculum cut.

The bill (S.B. 3), which was passed on a vote of 18 to 4, now is stalled because the House can’t achieve a quorum while a breakaway group of Democrats is out of the state. The special session is set to end on Aug. 6.

It would remove more than two dozen teaching requirements from a new law (H.B 3979) that bars the teaching of critical race theory, an academic framework exploring racism’s shaping of the country.

That law included a list of historic figures, events and documents required for inclusion in social studies classes. The Senate-passed bill would remove most mentions of people of color and women from those requirements, along with a requirement that students be taught about the history of white supremacy and “the ways in which it is morally wrong.”

The measure also would bar the teaching of the 1619 Project— a New York Times initiative exploring U.S. history starting at the date enslaved people arrived in the English colonies.

Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R), who presides over the Senate, said in a statement after the vote that “Senate Bill 3 will make certain that critical race philosophies including the debunked 1619 founding myth, are removed from our school curriculums statewide.”

“Parents want their students to learn how to think critically, not be indoctrinated by the ridiculous leftist narrative that America and our Constitution are rooted in racism,” Patrick said.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/social-ju ... vil-rights

“What we’re doing with this bill, we’re saying that specific reading list doesn’t belong in statute,” said the bill’s author, state Sen. Bryan Hughes (R).

Instead, such requirements should be in the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills, or TEKS,standards developed by the State Board of Education, he said.

Anthony, MLK, and Chavez are still required topics, they just moved the location of the requirements:

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/r ... =113&rl=16

C) identify the accomplishments and contributions of individuals and groups such as Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, Cesar Chavez, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, the Tuskegee Airmen, and the 442nd Regimental Combat Team in the areas of civil rights, women's rights, military actions, and politics.

[McParadigm]

?

The Texas Senate on Friday passed legislation that would end requirements that public schools include writings on women’s suffrage and the civil rights movement in social studies classes.

Among the figures whose works would be dropped: Susan B. Anthony, Cesar Chavez, and Martin Luther King Jr., whose “I Have a Dream"speech and “Letter from a Birmingham Jail” would no longer make the curriculum cut.

The bill (S.B. 3), which was passed on a vote of 18 to 4, now is stalled because the House can’t achieve a quorum while a breakaway group of Democrats is out of the state. The special session is set to end on Aug. 6.

It would remove more than two dozen teaching requirements from a new law (H.B 3979) that bars the teaching of critical race theory, an academic framework exploring racism’s shaping of the country.

That law included a list of historic figures, events and documents required for inclusion in social studies classes. The Senate-passed bill would remove most mentions of people of color and women from those requirements, along with a requirement that students be taught about the history of white supremacy and “the ways in which it is morally wrong.”

The measure also would bar the teaching of the 1619 Project— a New York Times initiative exploring U.S. history starting at the date enslaved people arrived in the English colonies.

Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R), who presides over the Senate, said in a statement after the vote that “Senate Bill 3 will make certain that critical race philosophies including the debunked 1619 founding myth, are removed from our school curriculums statewide.”

“Parents want their students to learn how to think critically, not be indoctrinated by the ridiculous leftist narrative that America and our Constitution are rooted in racism,” Patrick said.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/social-ju ... vil-rights

“What we’re doing with this bill, we’re saying that specific reading list doesn’t belong in statute,” said the bill’s author, state Sen. Bryan Hughes (R).

Instead, such requirements should be in the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills, or TEKS,standards developed by the State Board of Education, he said.

Anthony, MLK, and Chavez are still required topics, they just moved the location of the requirements:

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/r ... =113&rl=16

C) identify the accomplishments and contributions of individuals and groups such as Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, Cesar Chavez, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, the Tuskegee Airmen, and the 442nd Regimental Combat Team in the areas of civil rights, women's rights, military actions, and politics.

I’m not sure I follow.

The link you provided is to the state EA’s current Social Studies administration code. Those documents are the education agency’s codification of curricular regulations adopted by state government. If this bill is passed making changes to the curricular requirements, the agency will conduct a review…adjusting the code so that the Social Studied curriculum meets with current law.

This, meanwhile, is the principle section of the state curricular requirements list that the bill would excise.

[elliseamos]

But I thought they were the party of Lincoln?! Cutting out the Emancipation Proclamation seems a little too on the nose.

[simple schoolboy]

Whites and Indians in South Africa can't be racist because they don't have the privilege of running all the institutions. Am I playing this right?

[Bi_3]

I’m not sure I follow.

The link you provided is to the state EA’s current Social Studies administration code. Those documents are the education agency’s codification of curricular regulations adopted by state government. If this bill is passed making changes to the curricular requirements, the agency will conduct a review…adjusting the code so that the Social Studied curriculum meets with current law.

This, meanwhile, is the principle section of the state curricular requirements list that the bill would excise.

<images snipped>

It's really confusing and news articles seem to contradict each other, so I could be wrong. It looks like in the original bill passed a month or so ago those were explicit call outs that overlapped what's in the "TEKS" (the link I posted was straight from the article you linked), so the red team removed them in the newer, even more censorship filled version. It's unclear what the net effect for teachers actually is, which speaks to just how bad these bills are.

Maybe Orpheus understands it better.

[tree_]

I just re-read this entire thread. Whew, what a journey.