Red Mosquito

Fuzzcharger wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:

Fuzzcharger wrote:If I ran a poll for the most self-absorbed and boring poster on here I wonder if Release_Me would be in the majority of the votes.

Hey Fuzz, play the ball man.

Fair call. Probably best I not read anymore before I stab myself in the eye with a fork.

My poll reference is a fair joke though! C'mon!

LikeLukin wrote:

stip wrote:

LikeLukin wrote:A big reason why many, many people grew to love Pearl Jam in the first place was their anti-rock star attitude combined with their amazing songwriting and musicianship. These people could appreciate everything the band done through most of their career because they were always putting out material that was a little off-the-road, albeit with some very radio friendly songs thrown in there, but even those had anti-pop elements to them that people respected, like how Last Kiss was recorded during a sound-check and released as a fan-club single and thein solely for charity on a compilation. They didn't make Last Kiss for the fame or money. That's just an example.

Sirens, however, reeks of a band that is grasping for the mainstream with the ultimate stereo-typical power ballad formula. This is exactly what PJ were AGAINST for so many years, and the reason many people loved them over those years. So, essentially for those people, myself included, we are having a hard time dealing with the fact that our favorite band that we loved for their anti-rock star attitudes are now going for that rock star throne.

This song might do the opposite of what Vitalogy started and No Code finished...

or maybe there's been a part of some of them (certainly mike, who wrote it) who always liked those kinds of songs and wanted to write one.

and yes, this is a single, but you should release the song with the widest appeal as a single because the point of a single is to attract attention to your new music. The people already on board don't need it. And in today's tribal music market releasing an insular single is pretty pointless. You could make a statement with Who You Are in 1996 because everyone would hear it. That's not the case today.

Yes, that's evident about Mike. He was always my least favorite

I'm not saying they shouldn't have released it as a single. If you're gonna write a single, then release it. I'm just explaining why many of us dislike this song.

McParadigm wrote:Well the important thing is to remember that the only reason anybody could have for not liking this song is that they're in denial and they are stuck in the past, and the only reason anybody could have for liking this song is that they're in denial and they've talked themselves into thinking its good.

Release_Me wrote:

McParadigm wrote:Well the important thing is to remember that the only reason anybody could have for not liking this song is that they're in denial and they are stuck in the past, and the only reason anybody could have for liking this song is that they're in denial and they've talked themselves into thinking its good.

Sums up both sides of the argument fairly nicely.

LetMeSleep wrote:

Fuzzcharger wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:

Fuzzcharger wrote:If I ran a poll for the most self-absorbed and boring poster on here I wonder if Release_Me would be in the majority of the votes.

Hey Fuzz, play the ball man.

Fair call. Probably best I not read anymore before I stab myself in the eye with a fork.

My poll reference is a fair joke though! C'mon!

No fork needed, you just have to listen to Sirens another ten times or so.

stupidmop wrote:

LikeLukin wrote:

stip wrote:

LikeLukin wrote:A big reason why many, many people grew to love Pearl Jam in the first place was their anti-rock star attitude combined with their amazing songwriting and musicianship. These people could appreciate everything the band done through most of their career because they were always putting out material that was a little off-the-road, albeit with some very radio friendly songs thrown in there, but even those had anti-pop elements to them that people respected, like how Last Kiss was recorded during a sound-check and released as a fan-club single and thein solely for charity on a compilation. They didn't make Last Kiss for the fame or money. That's just an example.

Sirens, however, reeks of a band that is grasping for the mainstream with the ultimate stereo-typical power ballad formula. This is exactly what PJ were AGAINST for so many years, and the reason many people loved them over those years. So, essentially for those people, myself included, we are having a hard time dealing with the fact that our favorite band that we loved for their anti-rock star attitudes are now going for that rock star throne.

This song might do the opposite of what Vitalogy started and No Code finished...

or maybe there's been a part of some of them (certainly mike, who wrote it) who always liked those kinds of songs and wanted to write one.

and yes, this is a single, but you should release the song with the widest appeal as a single because the point of a single is to attract attention to your new music. The people already on board don't need it. And in today's tribal music market releasing an insular single is pretty pointless. You could make a statement with Who You Are in 1996 because everyone would hear it. That's not the case today.

Yes, that's evident about Mike. He was always my least favorite

I'm not saying they shouldn't have released it as a single. If you're gonna write a single, then release it. I'm just explaining why many of us dislike this song.

For me its a combination of that and the fact that it is such a straightforward power ballad, nothing to make it a little different or twist it on his head or make it a little pearl jam. Which is probably what they wanted, I just don't know why. They could have had a single with wide appeal that was still a little interesting. Obviously they're not making music just to make me happy, and they're gonna do what they want, but yeah. Roll on the rest of the album.

LikeLukin wrote:A big reason why many, many people grew to love Pearl Jam in the first place was their anti-rock star attitude combined with their amazing songwriting and musicianship. These people could appreciate everything the band done through most of their career because they were always putting out material that was a little off-the-road, albeit with some very radio friendly songs thrown in there, but even those had anti-pop elements to them that people respected, like how Last Kiss was recorded during a sound-check and released as a fan-club single and then solely for charity on a compilation. They didn't make Last Kiss for the fame or money. That's just an example.

Sirens, however, reeks of a band that is grasping for the mainstream with the ultimate stereo-typical power ballad formula. This is exactly what PJ were AGAINST for so many years, and the reason many people loved them over those years. So, essentially for those people, myself included, we are having a hard time dealing with the fact that our favorite band that we loved for their anti-rock star attitudes are now going for that rock star throne.

This song might do the opposite of what Vitalogy started and No Code finished...

Fuzzcharger wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:

Fuzzcharger wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:

Fuzzcharger wrote:If I ran a poll for the most self-absorbed and boring poster on here I wonder if Release_Me would be in the majority of the votes.

Hey Fuzz, play the ball man.

Fair call. Probably best I not read anymore before I stab myself in the eye with a fork.

My poll reference is a fair joke though! C'mon!

No fork needed, you just have to listen to Sirens another ten times or so.

BAM!

Release_Me wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

Heathen wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

Lament wrote:

Fuzzcharger wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

Release_Me wrote:I don't know what to say other than the polls show more people like the song than those who don't. There's no other point.

Uh, cool...?

I still can't fathom what relevance that has to the discussion at hand but I doubt there's much to be gained by chewing it over further.

It feels as though you're countering an argument nobody is making.

That makes 2 of us.

Guys, we're just wrong for not liking Sirens.

I'm gonna go listen to Crown of Thorns and think about how wrong I am. Enjoy the Sirens, guys.

I made a general statement about people either coming around to liking it or not accepting it as a Pearl Jam song, based on the reactions I read here. Suddenly, all those who despise the song get defensive and start explaining how they don't like it because it's just not good. Well, my post wasn't directed at you then. I'm talking about those who despise it just because it's a Pearl Jam song and something they didn't want or expect Pearl Jam to do. If you don't like it, feel secure in your reasons for not liking it. Not a big deal.

The argument started precisely because you said people were going to either a) come around or b) not accept it as a Pearl Jam song. That just makes it look like those are the only two options, and that it's impossible to c) accept it and still not like it.

It did? Then I should have specified those are not the only two options. I always thought people who didn't like the song because they just didn't like it wouldn't feel like I was addressing them.

That's often how people will read "either a or b".

Only I never specified the options as 'either a or b' to give the impression that those are the only available ones.

This post in particular doesn't read like you're in any way open to 'option c':

Once you get past the initial 'WTF did I just hear? Is that a Pearl Jam song?' You will get to appreciate the fact that this is really one of the best things they have ever done. Or you won't because you just can't accept that they made this song.

Oh, yeah. I missed out "or you could something else". I thought that was inherent.

I just wrote down what I had seen over the last few days. If you don't fall into either category, you know you don't. Why waste so much time arguing over why I explicity didn't state a third option?

Release_Me wrote:The most Pearl Jam thing about it is they took an 80s power ballad song structure, made it almost six minutes long but didn't insert a chorus or any part which could be easily identifiable to sing along to. The vocal melody of Sirens is perhaps the most challenging of all the new songs. And this is supposed to be a radio friendly song. That's Pearl Jam for you.

LetMeSleep wrote:Deep breathe everyone as an interlude is needed here:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/essex ... 29374.html

Release_Me wrote:

stupidmop wrote:

LikeLukin wrote:

stip wrote:

LikeLukin wrote:A big reason why many, many people grew to love Pearl Jam in the first place was their anti-rock star attitude combined with their amazing songwriting and musicianship. These people could appreciate everything the band done through most of their career because they were always putting out material that was a little off-the-road, albeit with some very radio friendly songs thrown in there, but even those had anti-pop elements to them that people respected, like how Last Kiss was recorded during a sound-check and released as a fan-club single and thein solely for charity on a compilation. They didn't make Last Kiss for the fame or money. That's just an example.

Sirens, however, reeks of a band that is grasping for the mainstream with the ultimate stereo-typical power ballad formula. This is exactly what PJ were AGAINST for so many years, and the reason many people loved them over those years. So, essentially for those people, myself included, we are having a hard time dealing with the fact that our favorite band that we loved for their anti-rock star attitudes are now going for that rock star throne.

This song might do the opposite of what Vitalogy started and No Code finished...

or maybe there's been a part of some of them (certainly mike, who wrote it) who always liked those kinds of songs and wanted to write one.

and yes, this is a single, but you should release the song with the widest appeal as a single because the point of a single is to attract attention to your new music. The people already on board don't need it. And in today's tribal music market releasing an insular single is pretty pointless. You could make a statement with Who You Are in 1996 because everyone would hear it. That's not the case today.

Yes, that's evident about Mike. He was always my least favorite

I'm not saying they shouldn't have released it as a single. If you're gonna write a single, then release it. I'm just explaining why many of us dislike this song.

For me its a combination of that and the fact that it is such a straightforward power ballad, nothing to make it a little different or twist it on his head or make it a little pearl jam. Which is probably what they wanted, I just don't know why. They could have had a single with wide appeal that was still a little interesting. Obviously they're not making music just to make me happy, and they're gonna do what they want, but yeah. Roll on the rest of the album.

The most Pearl Jam thing about it is they took an 80s power ballad song structure, made it almost six minutes long but didn't insert a chorus or any part which could be easily identifiable to sing along to. The vocal melody of Sirens is perhaps the most challenging of all the new songs. And this is supposed to be a radio friendly song. That's Pearl Jam for you.

harmless wrote:For the record: I've been thinking, and talking, and thinking, and talking, and I understand why for some people "Sirens" was the final nail in the coffin. I understand why it seems like the last assault (which overall has been cumulative) from a band with, for some, different values than the ones we signed up to. And while I don't always feel like that myself (it's easy to feel like it sometimes) I won't deny anyone the right to the anger and disappointment. I've sort of been doing that, and I was wrong to be doing that. There are some deeply intelligent people pretty pissed off right now. I'm not one of them, but I get it.

harmless wrote:For the record: I've been thinking, and talking, and thinking, and talking, and I understand why for some people "Sirens" was the final nail in the coffin. I understand why it seems like the last assault (which overall has been cumulative) from a band with, for some, different values than the ones we signed up to. And while I don't always feel like that myself (it's easy to feel like it sometimes) I won't deny anyone the right to the anger and disappointment. I've sort of been doing that, and I was wrong to be doing that. There are some deeply intelligent people pretty pissed off right now. I'm not one of them, but I get it.

stip wrote:future days is the only one of these songs (no wait, sirens too) that I can understand a strong hostile reaction to. Not like it fine. But L-bolt and LTRP both have a lot of really good things happening in them, and just don't seem like songs it should be easy to hate.


I think people may throw the word hate around a bit too easily.