Red Mosquito

Coach wrote:I was expecting an "epic battle unlike the Wall has ever seen," and was a bit underwhelmed. It some points, it felt like a much smaller battle. Was expecting to see all 100,000 wildlings.

Of course, when they had that thing whip around the Wall and knock off the wildlings, that was awesome.

So why did I nonetheless come out of the episode somewhat disappointed? Again, in a word, Ygritte. Rose Leslie has been one of a handful of performers on the show who’ve really elevated their characters above what they were in the books. But Ygritte’s death, which was among the saddest moments in the George R. R. Martin novels, felt as though it got short shrift here. Like the calamitous outcome of Oberyn’s duel with the Mountain last week (but to a considerably greater degree) the scene felt rushed. Not only was Jon and Ygritte’s exchange shorter than in the book, but given the way it was tucked in amid the violent mayhem—it didn’t even merit the oomph of being a final-scene kicker—it seemed almost an afterthought.

Ygritte’s death, which was among the saddest moments in the George R. R. Martin novels, felt as though it got short shrift here.
Moreover, the power of the moment was undermined by the fact that Ygritte’s death takes place in the show much later than it did in the novels. (Folks who aren’t interested in how the two differ may just want to skip the rest of this paragraph.) In the book, the skirmish between the Wildling raiding party and the Crows at Castle Black—and with it, Ygritte’s death—comes long before the arrival of Mance’s army north of the Wall. In show-time, I had expected Ygritte’s final “you know nothing” to occur around episode four or five. Instead, Ygritte basically vanished from episodes four through seven, giving us altogether too much time to forget how terrific she was. And when she finally came back, her defining feature (also in a departure from the books) was her extreme murderousness, which somewhat undercuts the tragedy of her ultimate demise. Again, I know there’s nothing more tedious than the second-guessings of a book fan, but Ygritte deserved a better, sadder death, and it would have been an easy thing to give her one.

In all, I thought it was a slightly odd episode in general, one that provided unusual pleasures—Mag the Mighty, for instance, the giant who single-handedly broaches the gate—but was largely missing the primary elements that make the show such a consistent joy: the cunning dialogue, the unexpected plot swerves, etc. Indeed, apart from Ygritte’s death, almost nothing of genuine import happened tonight. Mance’s preliminary testing of the Wall’s defenses has been repelled, but he still has an overwhelming force of men and monsters preparing for their next assault. And given this episode’s singular focus, who knows what may have been going on in the rest of Westeros (and Essos) in the meantime—poisonings? betrayals? copious amounts of gratuitous nudity? I’ll only say this: unless I’m sorely mistaken, next week’s finale—in previous seasons the time when Benioff and Weiss have reset the board after a shocking episode nine—should be chock full of game-changers.

Ygritte was destined for this in a subtler way. She was determined to find Jon, but it’s clear she wouldn’t be able to kill him. And he can’t die, because he’s the boring, old hero. Maybe defecting was an option, but it feels like her fate is sealed from the get-go. The longer she waits, the bigger the target on her back. The fact that her arrow came from Olly (the Kenard of Westeros), and indirectly from Sam, is the big whammy. And then Jon rushes to hold her in the middle of a battle. The longer that happens, the bigger his target becomes, but, again, he’s untouchable.

Simple Torture wrote:This gave me a good chuckle; from the AVclub Newbies review:

Ygritte was destined for this in a subtler way. She was determined to find Jon, but it’s clear she wouldn’t be able to kill him. And he can’t die, because he’s the boring, old hero. Maybe defecting was an option, but it feels like her fate is sealed from the get-go. The longer she waits, the bigger the target on her back. The fact that her arrow came from Olly (the Kenard of Westeros), and indirectly from Sam, is the big whammy. And then Jon rushes to hold her in the middle of a battle. The longer that happens, the bigger his target becomes, but, again, he’s untouchable.

Mecca wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:This gave me a good chuckle; from the AVclub Newbies review:

Ygritte was destined for this in a subtler way. She was determined to find Jon, but it’s clear she wouldn’t be able to kill him. And he can’t die, because he’s the boring, old hero. Maybe defecting was an option, but it feels like her fate is sealed from the get-go. The longer she waits, the bigger the target on her back. The fact that her arrow came from Olly (the Kenard of Westeros), and indirectly from Sam, is the big whammy. And then Jon rushes to hold her in the middle of a battle. The longer that happens, the bigger his target becomes, but, again, he’s untouchable.

Untouchable is hilarious to apply to GoT characters

Monkey_Driven wrote:

Coach wrote:I was expecting an "epic battle unlike the Wall has ever seen," and was a bit underwhelmed. It some points, it felt like a much smaller battle. Was expecting to see all 100,000 wildlings.

Of course, when they had that thing whip around the Wall and knock off the wildlings, that was awesome.

It is more of a siege. I thought the episode was very well done. I knew what was going to happen and was on the edge of my seat the entire duration of the battle.

@SkitchP wrote:I honestly thought this was the worst GoT episode to date. I wasn't expecting some great reveal or anything either. I just think that so much of sword fighting seems like well costumed LARPing. I felt the same way when they took crastors (?) keep. It just looks so... fake and inconsequential. Blackwater had ships, and wild fire, to cut the sword fighting scenes up. This really didn't. Outside of the cool wall anchor thing it did nothing for me. Couple that with the fact it seemed like the Crows were getting destroyed by the wildlings, and then ghost kills one dude, Ygritte dies, then Boom, Battle Won!

Also, because of the night, and the similar clothing, it really was hard to tell who was on what side outside of the 5 crows and 3 wildlings we already know. By my count, 421 of the nights watch were killed.

Id rather follow a dozen random stores for 5 minutes than a massive battle if that's how it's going to be executed.

Strat wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:I honestly thought this was the worst GoT episode to date. I wasn't expecting some great reveal or anything either. I just think that so much of sword fighting seems like well costumed LARPing. I felt the same way when they took crastors (?) keep. It just looks so... fake and inconsequential. Blackwater had ships, and wild fire, to cut the sword fighting scenes up. This really didn't. Outside of the cool wall anchor thing it did nothing for me. Couple that with the fact it seemed like the Crows were getting destroyed by the wildlings, and then ghost kills one dude, Ygritte dies, then Boom, Battle Won!

Also, because of the night, and the similar clothing, it really was hard to tell who was on what side outside of the 5 crows and 3 wildlings we already know. By my count, 421 of the nights watch were killed.

Id rather follow a dozen random stores for 5 minutes than a massive battle if that's how it's going to be executed.

I am just not much of an epic battle kind of guy. As someone who hasn't read the books, that episode could have been done in 20 minutes for me. I can only take so much sword fighting before I just dont care.

Mecca wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:This gave me a good chuckle; from the AVclub Newbies review:

Ygritte was destined for this in a subtler way. She was determined to find Jon, but it’s clear she wouldn’t be able to kill him. And he can’t die, because he’s the boring, old hero. Maybe defecting was an option, but it feels like her fate is sealed from the get-go. The longer she waits, the bigger the target on her back. The fact that her arrow came from Olly (the Kenard of Westeros), and indirectly from Sam, is the big whammy. And then Jon rushes to hold her in the middle of a battle. The longer that happens, the bigger his target becomes, but, again, he’s untouchable.

Untouchable is hilarious to apply to GoT characters

AndySlash wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:Yeah I was pretty into this one.

elliseamos wrote:what's to stop the thenn warg (sp?) from taking over some crows body and killing folks atop the wall?

cutuphalfdead wrote:

elliseamos wrote:what's to stop the thenn warg (sp?) from taking over some crows body and killing folks atop the wall?

Wargs can traditionally only take over animals, not humans. Bran is the exception to this.