Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 8:38 pm
by liebzz
I could be wrong, but I don’t think bands listen to their studio albums all that often.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 8:41 pm
by epilogue
liebzz wrote:I could be wrong, but I don’t think bands listen to their studio albums all that often.
That's interesting. Why do you think that?
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 9:06 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 9:09 pm
by epilogue
tragabigzanda wrote:
epilogue wrote:Obviously bands care about how they sound. That's not really up for debate. I just think it's interesting how often a fan will say "this sounds like shit!" but yet the artist still released it, knowing that they care how they sound. I just wonder how often an artist thinks the record sounds bad vs how often a fan does.
It's a stupid conversation for the internet, surely, but just something I think about. *shrugs*
I don't think it's stupid at all, I think it has a ton of merit because it gets to the creative and commercial intentions of the artist...
I think Dave Grohl probably writes hooks because he loves hooks. I think his last record was compressed to within an inch of its life because A) he wants it to be as loud as any other song when it comes up on shuffle, and B) because like a lot of aging rock stars, he's losing his hearing.
I can't speak to A but I often think about B. I think that makes a lot of sense and I feel like we (as PJ fans) have experienced that in real time with Ed, for example. But both of your points do make senses to me, and I think that's maybe the crux of this whole issue.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 9:39 pm
by liebzz
epilogue wrote:
liebzz wrote:I could be wrong, but I don’t think bands listen to their studio albums all that often.
That's interesting. Why do you think that?
It seemed anecdotally from rock bands that they put it down and then spend time rehearsing the songs and then play them a thousand times live, combined with the other music they listen to I would just imagine your own stuff is probably mostly left on the shelf. Plus, there’s nothing more awkward than hearing yourself on tape. I feel like once they’ve recorded the thing, they want to go out and play it, but wouldn’t be as interested in hearing the studio version at that point.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 9:47 pm
by epilogue
liebzz wrote:
epilogue wrote:
liebzz wrote:I could be wrong, but I don’t think bands listen to their studio albums all that often.
That's interesting. Why do you think that?
It seemed anecdotally from rock bands that they put it down and then spend time rehearsing the songs and then play them a thousand times live, combined with the other music they listen to I would just imagine your own stuff is probably mostly left on the shelf. Plus, there’s nothing more awkward than hearing yourself on tape. I feel like once they’ve recorded the thing, they want to go out and play it, but wouldn’t be as interested in hearing the studio version at that point.
Obviously, I have no idea whether you're on the nose here or not, but just as an artist myself (in, admittedly, different mediums) that sounds literally insane.
But you could be totally right. Either way, it's fascinating to me.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 9:50 pm
by tragabigzanda
tragabigzanda wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb
I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 10:22 pm
by bodysnatcher
tragabigzanda wrote:I think most artists go through a period of frequent critical listening as an album is wrapping, then maybe more as they're preparing to tour; and are otherwise not really interested in listening to their own records beyond that point.
i think that's the extent of it too. there's been several interviews over the years from multiple artists where they said they had to go find their own album on spotify to relearn how to play a song.
if i were a musician, i don't think i'd like to hear my own songs outside the above situations because I would find myself nitpicking them. "I should have played it this way" or "Ugh, just thought of a better lyric". I do that all of the time when i see my own work in public and it's too late to do anything about it. And there is plenty of work i've done where I just don't even want to know it existed, to the extent of not even backing it up on a hard drive.
It probably falls also on how much stock a musician puts into HOW a song sounds. I don't know the guy, but from interviews it seems EV finds the value of his/their songs in their creation, the framework, and the live interpretation. The knob-turning has little value to him, so it seems. The interviews he's been in have him playing songs inside a vintage car, on a Fisher Price record player, etc.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 10:38 pm
by Strat
Now I'm nobody but as someone who is writing an album now I'm obsessed with listening to the stuff. Over. And over. And over. And over.
Part of that is me learning how to record and mix music. I also don't remember how to play a lot of the songs. lol
But, I can't fucking wait to be done with it and not listen to this shit.
I'm sure most real artists are like that too. By the time the album comes out for them it's probably year or more old and they're already writing new music.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Mon October 23, 2023 11:50 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 7:52 am
by Happy Trees
VinylGuy wrote:SG and Matt C were frustrated with the sound of Badmotorfinger
They weren't wrong though. It has an extreme amount of treble and little else which renders it thin and gutless. The guitars sound like razors and the drums have no balls at all. It's especially shocking when you A/B it with what came after. I made a Soundgarden compilation for someone and I had to EQ the shit out of those songs to get them somewhat in line with everything else, and it still sounds like ass.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 12:16 pm
by VinylGuy
yeah, that album sounds awful. Im glad they did SU and DOTU after that.
Im listening to the podcast. Its very good. Its really cool to jump back in time when In Utero was about to happen. I remember all the fuzz about Albini doing the album.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 12:36 pm
by B
I think artists listen to their music in the studio, on the cleanest copy, on the best possible equipment. That's what they sign off on, and they probably only listen to hi def digital copies after that. I bet they have no idea what the fans are hearing on records and CDs and Spotify. Maybe that's the reason for the disconnect between your opinion of Foo Fighters and Dave Grohl's.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 1:00 pm
by bada
Its cool for bands to say they don't listen to their own music. They do. A million times. Obviously if it was a bad experience maybe they don't want to revisit but if you are proud of something why wouldn't you? Though I could see them getting sick of their own songs. I believe it more for actors. I imagine it's difficult to lose yourself in a movie you are in especially if you remember that the day you shot that scene your co-star showed up late and drunk and craft services gave you gas.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 2:33 pm
by Leatherhead
I used to draw some. I loved looking at my drawings.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 4:44 pm
by Kevin Davis
tragabigzanda wrote:I think most artists go through a period of frequent critical listening as an album is wrapping, then maybe more as they're preparing to tour; and are otherwise not really interested in listening to their own records beyond that point.
This very much describes my relationship with my own creative ventures -- music, writing, etc. There are times when it is enjoyable to go back and relisten, re-read, etc., but most of the time it feels vulnerable and a little uncomfortable, even if I'm the only one in the room.
tragabigzanda wrote:I think his last record was compressed to within an inch of its life because A) he wants it to be as loud as any other song when it comes up on shuffle, and B) because like a lot of aging rock stars, he's losing his hearing.
I also think that LOUD mastering probably somewhat corresponds with the adrenaline, excitement, etc., most artists feel at the moment of a new project -- they've recorded these songs with big choruses, pounding drums, crunching guitars, etc., and hearing a finished product that just pushes all of that to its most absurd extreme reinforces that rush, at a stage in the creative process where excitement dominates nuance. I really think a lot of the purist concepts that listeners get hung up on as consumers (it's too overproduced, compressed, etc.) aren't even things that register with artists during the creative process. They're just coming at it from a completely different angle, and asking themselves different questions as they listen back -- can you make out the things that are happening in this song? Is it clear enough? Does it sound like the thing I had in my head? Is it powerful enough for listeners to hear it and respond to it? I think these things will take priority every time, and during the process of creation I think bands are easily persuaded by dubious tools if they think it will allow them to achieve those goals. And I don't think it's always about greed or sales; I really do think, for most artists, they just want to reach as many people as possible.
I also wonder if bands just aren't the best judges of how they actually should sound to an audience. No band can ever be in the crowd for one of its own performances; they only ever hear things from the internal environment of the stage or studio, where the real-time sounds of the instruments are reverberating all over the place, where you're having to focus through that in order to be able to hear yourself, etc. Even with good monitors in a good room, it's just a whole different thing being part of the creation of the sound itself.
Trag, you’ve been in the business - you can probably speak to whether this is reasonable or totally off-base.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 5:43 pm
by washing machine
Love this convo, guys.
Michael Azerrad is on the recent episode of Kreative Kontrol this week too. We've got a wealth of Nirvana content suddenly!
(Azerrad wrote "Come as you Are", the definitive Nirvana bio that I absolutely devoured in high school.)
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 5:47 pm
by VinylGuy
The loud mastering these days have also to do with how its handled in streaming services or radio.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 7:35 pm
by Birds in Hell
washing machine wrote:Azerrad wrote "Come as you Are", the definitive Nirvana bio that I absolutely devoured in high school.
Me too, my old copy pretty much disintegrated, so I'm very much looking forward to the revised and expanded version out this week (whenever my copy actually arrives).
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Tue October 24, 2023 8:40 pm
by Rangi Guy
This is quite an interesting convo around mixing and junk
