Red Mosquito

B wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I have no interest in reeling you in

That's OK. Bammer has no interest in treating anyone with kindness or respect.

and that's what my trusty "foe" button is for!

You wanna foe me because you’ve turned “there / they’re / their” into a gender issue, be my guest.

She doesn't need your permission or approval, Bam.

I block every transphobe in online spaces where I want to stay and feel comfortable, the Internet allows you to curate your personal experience like that

epilogue wrote:She doesn't need your permission or approval, Bam.

friends list for life

Ms Harmless wrote:I block every transphobe in online spaces where I want to stay and feel comfortable, the Internet allows you to curate your personal experience like that

Peeps wrote:

warehouse wrote:true story: someone asked me if I was 'cis' and I had no idea what it meant or how to answer it. as a straight, white guy who's junk matches my identity, i'm pumped to have something to be offended by now!

so instead of CIS you prefer to be called tiny huh

you jerk!

"so much for the tolerant Left!"

Ms Harmless wrote:

we've been using "cis" in so many lexicons and contexts since forever (cis / transatlantic, for example); we're just now applying it to gender, harming no one

You learn something new everyday. Curious about why this rather archaic word was used just during this time period. What was specific about that timeframe (western expansion?)

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?c ... ic%3B%2Cc0

simple schoolboy wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

we've been using "cis" in so many lexicons and contexts since forever (cis / transatlantic, for example); we're just now applying it to gender, harming no one

You learn something new everyday. Curious about why this rather archaic word was used just during this time period. What was specific about that timeframe (western expansion?)

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?c ... ic%3B%2Cc0

of course, language is cultural and while trans and nonbinary people exist all over the world, various non-Western / indigenous cultures have had and will have their own ways of describing gender experience(s) and identities; the important thing is that a variety of that language exists so that people needing it to describe their life experience can now find it

I want to see cis and trans normalised wherever that framework exists (and has existed for a long time) to understand gender-nonconformity; I don't know who first used "cisgender" as a word but it was certainly several decades ago

Ms Harmless wrote:

simple schoolboy wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

we've been using "cis" in so many lexicons and contexts since forever (cis / transatlantic, for example); we're just now applying it to gender, harming no one

You learn something new everyday. Curious about why this rather archaic word was used just during this time period. What was specific about that timeframe (western expansion?)

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?c ... ic%3B%2Cc0

of course, language is cultural and while trans and nonbinary people exist all over the world, various non-Western / indigenous cultures have had and will have their own ways of describing gender experience(s) and identities; the important thing is that a variety of that language exists so that people needing it to describe their life experience can now find it

I want to see cis and trans normalised wherever that framework exists (and has existed for a long time) to understand gender-nonconformity; I don't know who first used "cisgender" as a word but it was certainly several decades ago

I just had another thought

language like "cis" and "trans" are probably concurrent with Western expansion because they're concurrent with the (Capitalist, white supremacist) Medical Industrial Complex; and as long as we are living under that, we need to use that language (until all of us can simply be considered diverse, equal and normal)

I'm stating the obvious but at this point it's worth saying that not every trans person will medically transition, either because they don't want / feel the need to or because they can't; those that do medically transition do so because they're trans -- they aren't trans because they medically transitioned (I was a woman long before anyone else acknowledged it)

I think I speak for everyone when I say that we all, regardless of background, can't stand CIS white males (liberals).

BurtReynolds wrote:I think I speak for everyone when I say that we all, regardless of background, can't stand CIS white males (liberals).

I am one (I think?) and I can’t stand us. But no one ever answers Bammer’s original question. These days its Lia Thomas but it’s always that (probably rare) event where a trans person who is now female dominates a sporting event. I feel like not acknowledging this isn’t good. I don’t think people really care about which bathroom people use, and I’d bet most people will call you what you want. But we all know the male body is bigger and stronger. Why can’t people at the very least admit it’s a gray area?

the only headlines you read are ones where trans people win in a sport, because that is the biased narrative those publications want to push; you don't read about the instances where the other happens unless you are following trans people and their allies; indeed, it is only when trans people speak that we are accused of peddling a narrative -- when the media does it, it's simply called "the news"

trans people (and let's be honest, we're really talking about trans *women*) are not inherently and always stronger than anyone, bigger than anyone, more muscular than anyone, more skilled than anyone

there are more variables in human physiology and ability than just "column one = strong and powerful" and "column two = weak and powerless"

many cis women have high concentrations of testosterone in their bodies and no one bats an eyelid; but when a trans woman with high estrogen succeeds in a sport, they are dismissed and shunned simply because they were assigned male as a baby (not "born male" or "previously male")

my responses here answer Bammer's question, but they don't confirm his biases; until you can cope with hearing answers that aren't simply "you're right", you won't see them as answers at all

also, this?

Rob wrote:I don’t think people really care about which bathroom people use, and I’d bet most people will call you what you want.

is laughably untrue; you'd know that if you spent a day with one of us, watched us be misgendered everywhere and hounded out of bathrooms

we should be letting athletes compete with one another according to comparable body type, not gender, and that is beginning to happen; sporting associations are beginning to let it happen, in spite of massive media pushback, and I'm glad of it

Ms Harmless wrote:we should be letting athletes compete with one another according to comparable body type, not gender, and that is beginning to happen; sporting associations are beginning to let it happen, in spite of massive media pushback, and I'm glad of it

Interesting. A weight class kinda thing for all sports? Though I really don't care about sports and find it ridiculous how much a lot of people seem to really think it's important.

Leatherhead wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:we should be letting athletes compete with one another according to comparable body type, not gender, and that is beginning to happen; sporting associations are beginning to let it happen, in spite of massive media pushback, and I'm glad of it

Interesting. A weight class kinda thing for all sports? Though I really don't care about sports and find it ridiculous how much a lot of people seem to really think it's important.

yeah, that's one example of a way to categorise athletes that is already working; I'm not super interested in sport either (except wheelchair sports); I haven't linked to the story, but I do know that in the 2020 Olympics, a trans female weightlifter was (apparently) the first trans person to enter it

what's pertinent to this discussion is:

1) given the weight class and build required of the sport (a type of body that largely defies gender classification), it went by with relatively little fuss, fanfare or backlash

2) up until the Olympics, she had only come 7th in (what I assume is) the highest-profile competition before the Olympics itself; and she was eliminated from the final of the Olympics

on both occasions she was beaten by cis women, but how many of us have heard of her? we haven't because "trans woman loses" doesn't sell a story

"Laurel Hubbard is a New Zealand weightlifter. Selected to compete at the 2020 Summer Olympics, she was the first openly transgender woman to compete in the Olympic Games. Prior to making her Olympic debut, Hubbard achieved a ranking of 7th in the IWF's women's +87 kg division."

"Laurel Hubbard - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Hubbard

when a trans woman succeeds, people argue that it was her "male advantage"

when a trans woman loses, people argue that she lost on purpose to make a political point

we can't win