Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:The Haves would genuinely work if Ed was actually poor or working class, and the song was ironically reclaiming "the haves" "for the people", as it were; he's just not in the position to be able to do that

I dont know that actually being a member of a social class is necessary to either share, endorse, or sing about a particular cause or set of values. We wouldnt say Ed cant sing about feminist themes because he’s a guy. But you do need to be mindful about self identification. Plus, as KD pointed out, that’s not really what this song is about and the very particular associations with have/have nots make it a terrible central metaphor

Strat wrote:I think Ed, probably wrongfully so, views the term “the haves” differently than the actual definition. He’s always rallied against greed and placing priorities on profit over soul.

In that sense, from Ed’s perspective, I’m sure he doesn’t view himself as a have.

Of course that is wrong.


I don’t think the song suffers from this whole argument about haves and have nots. It’s just cheesy, bad rhyming, weird style choices, and many other things.

Strat wrote:Maybe this is Ed’s landing on water or trans

Birds in Hell wrote:

Strat wrote:Maybe this is Ed’s landing on water or trans

Talk about lofty expectations!

Ed's solo career isn't in the same universe as either of those flawed but fascinating records, both of which feature a handful of career highlight songs for Neil.

I'd much sooner listen to either of those than Mirrorball, or any other post 90s NY album.

Strat wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

Strat wrote:Maybe this is Ed’s landing on water or trans

Talk about lofty expectations!

Ed's solo career isn't in the same universe as either of those flawed but fascinating records, both of which feature a handful of career highlight songs for Neil.

I'd much sooner listen to either of those than Mirrorball, or any other post 90s NY album.

lol spenno

Look trans is great but just calm down here

epilogue wrote:

stip wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:The Haves would genuinely work if Ed was actually poor or working class, and the song was ironically reclaiming "the haves" "for the people", as it were; he's just not in the position to be able to do that

I dont know that actually being a member of a social class is necessary to either share, endorse, or sing about a particular cause or set of values. We wouldnt say Ed cant sing about feminist themes because he’s a guy. But you do need to be mindful about self identification. Plus, as KD pointed out, that’s not really what this song is about and the very particular associations with have/have nots make it a terrible central metaphor

Not a great argument because one doesn't need to identify as woman or female to be a feminist.

Jorge wrote:I do agree that "The Haves" is perhaves the single worst song EV has ever been involved with

McParadigm wrote:The first two Pearl Jam records are, by and large, exercises in militant empathy. Observe a wrong and vanish inside it. Become the spark. Turn on the amps. Whatever happens next, happens.

But at LEAST as far back as Binaural, I just don't think he had that capacity in his songwriting anymore. He kept trying...especially on ST...but what used to be an almost totally stripped emotional wire now had protective layers. So the approach changed. Continue to observe the wrong. Continue to speak to the wrong. But keep yourself. You are yours. You have to be.

I'm saying that it shifted with time into more of a controlled thing. An intellectual exercise. A craft.

That militant empathy still informs a lot of his work (you can see it in Into the Wild, and on songs like Sleight of Hand, Army Reserve...not as much of Backspacer/LB, I guess), just as it pervades so very, very much of what he does and aspires to. It still exists as a spark to create. But the ability to let himself live inside that spark and whatever happens, happens....is gone.

Gigaton broke free of this problem in part because the wrong that was weighing on his mind was every bit as personal as it was universal. He could speak to it on a communal level simply by speaking directly to it on his own. That's a good dynamic for him, and he should look to it more often. I also think that's part of what a song like The End has going for it, as does the tail end of Brother the Cloud.

I don't hate The Haves, personally, but it is one of those rare times (and maybe I feel this way about something like My Father's Son, as well) where, when I look for the empathy that should be the true heart of the song...it feels false. Grotesque, in a way. Like a cynically applied mimic of something very old, now merely dubbed performatively useful. Gene Simmons putting on makeup before a show.

stip wrote:

epilogue wrote:

stip wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:The Haves would genuinely work if Ed was actually poor or working class, and the song was ironically reclaiming "the haves" "for the people", as it were; he's just not in the position to be able to do that

I dont know that actually being a member of a social class is necessary to either share, endorse, or sing about a particular cause or set of values. We wouldnt say Ed cant sing about feminist themes because he’s a guy. But you do need to be mindful about self identification. Plus, as KD pointed out, that’s not really what this song is about and the very particular associations with have/have nots make it a terrible central metaphor

Not a great argument because one doesn't need to identify as woman or female to be a feminist.

one doesnt need to be poor to be a socialist, or black to be concerned about racisim, etc.

stip wrote:

epilogue wrote:

stip wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:The Haves would genuinely work if Ed was actually poor or working class, and the song was ironically reclaiming "the haves" "for the people", as it were; he's just not in the position to be able to do that

I dont know that actually being a member of a social class is necessary to either share, endorse, or sing about a particular cause or set of values. We wouldnt say Ed cant sing about feminist themes because he’s a guy. But you do need to be mindful about self identification. Plus, as KD pointed out, that’s not really what this song is about and the very particular associations with have/have nots make it a terrible central metaphor

Not a great argument because one doesn't need to identify as woman or female to be a feminist.

one doesnt need to be poor to be a socialist, or black to be concerned about racisim, etc.

Ms Harmless wrote:

stip wrote:

epilogue wrote:

stip wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:The Haves would genuinely work if Ed was actually poor or working class, and the song was ironically reclaiming "the haves" "for the people", as it were; he's just not in the position to be able to do that

I dont know that actually being a member of a social class is necessary to either share, endorse, or sing about a particular cause or set of values. We wouldnt say Ed cant sing about feminist themes because he’s a guy. But you do need to be mindful about self identification. Plus, as KD pointed out, that’s not really what this song is about and the very particular associations with have/have nots make it a terrible central metaphor

Not a great argument because one doesn't need to identify as woman or female to be a feminist.

one doesnt need to be poor to be a socialist, or black to be concerned about racisim, etc.

they don't, but they're very unlikely to produce good art about those things if they're not directly affected