Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 4:09 pm
by VinylGuy
i wrote ¨had in mind¨ and not that the released album was not what they wanted
seems the 2013 is closer to what they HAD IN MIND after Nevermind
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 4:33 pm
by dad
the podcast w/Conan was good. I think towards the end - maybe - Krist is talking about the 30th anniversary reissue, and how it includes a couple of live shows, which were board tapes that were mixed after the fact using modern tech.
1. is that possible to do and get a good result?
2. if so, why doesn't another seattle band we know do something like that?
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 5:13 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 5:32 pm
by Happy Trees
dad wrote:the podcast w/Conan was good. I think towards the end - maybe - Krist is talking about the 30th anniversary reissue, and how it includes a couple of live shows, which were board tapes that were mixed after the fact using modern tech.
is that possible to do and get a good result?
Yes, but they didn't get a good result and it wasn't necessary in the first place. And Albini wisely didn't get involved.
tragabigzanda wrote:
There are a couple specific technologies that are able to de-mix a stereo recording. One is an absurdly expensive program called Cedar Tools (I think it's like $30K?). Then there was some open source thing that came out a couple years ago that, at the time, had to be launched from the command line, but was apparently able to do this. I've never played with either one.
I DO have access to a more common tool called RX, which is great for removing various sounds from recordings, but isn't advanced enough to fully de-mix a 2-channel recording without leaving all sorts of weird artifacts.
Which is exactly what happened with the concerts in the In Utero box. The people who aren't blindly praising it are noticing that it sounds like a 64k MP3. So bad it's laughable. But it's hard for the average person to tell the difference between a "bad recording" and a bad mixing/mastering job. The original recordings sounded fine and only needed a good mastering.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 5:58 pm
by Kevin Davis
Happy Trees wrote:Which is exactly what happened with the concerts in the In Utero box. The people who aren't blindly praising it are noticing that it sounds like a 64k MP3. So bad it's laughable. But it's hard for the average person to tell the difference between a "bad recording" and a bad mixing/mastering job. The original recordings sounded fine and only needed a good mastering.
Are you referring to the ones in the new box set? Are those out there now?
Disappointing if so, I was really looking forward to those.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 6:13 pm
by Kevin Davis
Looks like a few select tracks are up on Amazon music. Listening to "Pennyroyal Tea" from 12/30/93 now. Assuming this is inherent to the file and not a product of the stream, the drums have this weird 'whoosh' effect coming off many of the snare hits that is extremely unpleasant. It really does sound like a low bitrate MP3. Is this the kind of thing you're referring to?
Definitely a bummer, I was very much looking forward to these.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 6:38 pm
by VinylGuy
i think the new In Utero box comes out this friday right?
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 8:06 pm
by Happy Trees
Kevin Davis wrote:Looks like a few select tracks are up on Amazon music. Listening to "Pennyroyal Tea" from 12/30/93 now. Assuming this is inherent to the file and not a product of the stream, the drums have this weird 'whoosh' effect coming off many of the snare hits that is extremely unpleasant. It really does sound like a low bitrate MP3. Is this the kind of thing you're referring to?
Yes, exactly. Cheap extraction artifacts, press hype making it sound like a big deal and an insane price tag justified by useless trinkets that nobody wants but Krist seems thrilled with. And note that Grohl doesn't even know what's actually on it. This is what you get when the band members are hands-off and leave the important work to management people. It's easy to see why Albini wanted control over the 20th Anniversary set.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 8:14 pm
by VinylGuy
i kinda like what they done with the Nevermind reissue and In Utero reissue a few years back, but yeah the only musician doing top notch work with his material is Billy Corgan.
Kim Thayil also seems to know whats around his vault too.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 8:26 pm
by Happy Trees
VinylGuy wrote:i kinda like what they done with the Nevermind reissue and In Utero reissue a few years back, but yeah the only musician doing top notch work with his material is Billy Corgan.
Kim Thayil also seems to know whats around his vault too.
If you wanna talk classic rock, the Jethro Tull sets produced by Steven Wilson with help from Ian Anderson are extraordinary. Everything in the vault that exists from those sessions, perfectly remixed in stereo and surround, all of the original mixes as flat transfers including the unique single mixes, all of the BBC sessions, the best live material they have from those eras if it exists, extremely detailed and very satisfying reading material, in convenient small book-sized boxes with a surprisingly low price. And they have done all of the albums up to 1982 so far - 14 total and worth every penny. The gold standard and vastly the exception.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 8:28 pm
by tragabigzanda
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 8:28 pm
by Kevin Davis
Happy Trees wrote:
Kevin Davis wrote:Looks like a few select tracks are up on Amazon music. Listening to "Pennyroyal Tea" from 12/30/93 now. Assuming this is inherent to the file and not a product of the stream, the drums have this weird 'whoosh' effect coming off many of the snare hits that is extremely unpleasant. It really does sound like a low bitrate MP3. Is this the kind of thing you're referring to?
Yes, exactly. Cheap extraction artifacts, press hype making it sound like a big deal and an insane price tag justified by useless trinkets that nobody wants but Krist seems thrilled with. And note that Grohl doesn't even know what's actually on it. This is what you get when the band members are hands-off and leave the important work to management people. It's easy to see why Albini wanted control over the 20th Anniversary set.
Man, that is so disappointing, though I suppose not altogether surprising given Nirvana, Inc.'s track record with reissues. It's especially unfortunate considering the quality/significance of the material, and that these releases comprised of questionable mixing/mastering choices, subpar source tapes, etc., could be the last word on them. At least some of the stuff from the Nevermind reissues is out there in better quality on bootlegs; these two In Utero shows, as I understand, are new and unique to this set?
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 8:49 pm
by VinylGuy
tragabigzanda wrote:
VinylGuy wrote:i kinda like what they done with the Nevermind reissue and In Utero reissue a few years back, but yeah the only musician doing top notch work with his material is Billy Corgan.
Kim Thayil also seems to know whats around his vault too.
The PJ Harvey reissue campaign has been excellent. I haven't dived in too deep with the Bowie stuff, but the hardcore fans seem really happy. Neil is hit or miss. But yeah, mostly this stuff sucks.
yeah, i havent check those yet
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 9:29 pm
by Kevin Davis
tragabigzanda wrote:Neil is hit or miss.
I love what Neil Young has done with his Archives. Not every release is equally essential, and the marketing/packaging/structuring of the releases feels pretty quintessentially Neil (impulsive, inconsistent, sometimes baffling), but he is engaged with the process in a way that feels genuine and generous, and a lot of great stuff has come out. Despite the fact that he has released a few impractically expensive box sets, I like that most of his Archive releases (the official ones, not the subscriber-only timeline concerts) have been standalone 1- or 2CD sets that aren't bundled into deluxe $100+ boxes full of redundant material and non-musical souvenirs, and from memory I don't think there has been an abundance of problems with the audio.
Elvis Costello's campaign on Rhino in the early 2000's, for me, will always be the gold standard for reissues. Every album was reissued as a 2CD set priced like a single CD, with many of the albums themselves having been out of print for some years. The sound was good, the liner notes were fantastic (penned by EC himself), and the material was comprehensive -- B-sides, rarities, studio outtakes, important live performances, etc. Just beautifully rendered packages all around.
Overwhelmingly, though, I favor archival programs that are not tied to reissues and re-reissues of previously released material, a general concept that I wish was met with greater resistance from consumers. Miles Davis, Bob Dylan, The Grateful Dead, John Coltrane -- I admire the business models of all of these artists' archival programs, many of which have been in place since the early '90's and have done well surviving evolving business models and format changes without majorly losing focus. It's not surprising that all of them also have deeply knowedgeable fans/historians on their teams alongside the company guys.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Thu October 26, 2023 9:42 pm
by tragabigzanda
tragabigzanda wrote:
tragabigzanda wrote:Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb
I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Fri October 27, 2023 12:36 am
by bodysnatcher
Whoever earlier said that the In Utero history was simple has been proven dead wrong
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Fri October 27, 2023 1:28 am
by daft twat
bodysnatcher wrote:Whoever earlier said that the In Utero history was simple has been proven dead wrong
I believe they gave up on satisfaction.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Fri October 27, 2023 3:14 am
by Happy Trees
Kevin Davis wrote:these two In Utero shows, as I understand, are new and unique to this set?
Yes. In addition to that: Seattle was professionally recorded so it is entirely unclear why they needed to use AI extraction at all - and if they used the soundboard DAT or a previous mixdown.
A song from Los Angeles appeared on that recent Outcesticide bootleg, so it will be possible to make an A/B comparison to see what they did to it.
And there are songs from Rome included (Krist seems to think the whole show will be on the box - derp) despite there being far better shows recorded to DAT, so that seems to be another instance of "grab a quick bootleg and put it out".
Slow clap for Nirvana.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Fri October 27, 2023 11:55 am
by VinylGuy
Im listening to the Los Angeles show, great fucking show! most of this versions are great and tight very tight. Pat Smear really improved those guys.
I listened until Pennyroyal Tea so i have a huge batch of songs still, but damn great show.
Re: I Feel Stupid And Contagious / A Nirvana Thread
Posted: Fri October 27, 2023 2:57 pm
by Happy Trees
VinylGuy wrote:Im listening to the Los Angeles show, great fucking show! most of this versions are great and tight very tight. Pat Smear really improved those guys.
I listened until Pennyroyal Tea so i have a huge batch of songs still, but damn great show.
Absolutely, which makes the fact that it sounds like total ass even more frustrating.