Red Mosquito

Tuolumne wrote:

Strat wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

Strat wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:

stip wrote:Guys, as a 36 year old person I am sort of embarrassed by what my 15 year old self thought was really cool.

Yep. People seem to be using their teenage selves as some kind of pure barometer on their ideals. In some ways you should use that as a gauge, but in reality, I'm a little embarrassed of my ownself at that time. I definitely think I have mys shit more together now, although if I make to 70, I'll probably be laughing at my late 30s self too.

And Future Days came out back in fucking July. Now that it's being released as a single, you're up in arms about it all over again? Why burn about it all over again? Cause more people will hear it?

No. It just another reminder of what Pearl Jam thinks is their best material :\

If this were the case, I'd see the point a little more. But we all know singles are treated differently. They're not better, or necessarily worse, they're just singles. It's never even crossed my mind that the band would think singles are their best material. They've always treated singles with great ambivalance. For better or worse, Future Days is a song you "get" within the first couple listens, hence it's a single. They don't see it as their best song.

They also used to enjoy challenging the audience with singles: Nothing as it seems/who you are

Who You Are was a great song but bad single. The point of a single is to reach as many listeners as possible to let people know that the band has something out. "Real fans" would have heard Who You Are no matter what, cause they were going to buy the album anyway. They are releasing Future Days cause they want to reach people that may not have the album on their radar at this point.

What do you suggest they release? Pendulum? What would be the point of that? It would perform poorly, and absolutely no new people would hear it. It would be a phony nod to the "real fans" showing them how their still authentic and "legit", knowing full well nobody outside of the fanbase would hear it. It would be a useless fabricated message to the core fan base that they are willing to upend their career just like the good ol'days all for the sake of the fans. It would be fake as all hell. Am I saying anything new here? Nope.

I suggest Pearl Jam quit trying to gain fans.
These guys know they could record themselves shitting in a bucket, sell 500,000 copies of it, sell out an international tour from it, disappear for 4 years and do it again. I generally enjoy post RAMG but I'd be lying if they all didn't feel like they are just jumping into character to perform a play. It comes across in the music . You say Who You Are is a great song but a bad single but Lightning Bolt is an album with no great songs but 90% that would be good singles.

I don't understand how anyone can like Future Days anyways.

Well, this the 4th single from the album, so it really doesn't mean that much. It sounds like they just compiled some download/streaming traffic statistics and used that to put this one out there officially.

Strat wrote:Youre missing the point. Pearl Jam used to care about creating art more than reaching a massive audience. Do what they want in hopes that others attach themselves to it. Now it seems to be the opposite. Lets fill arenas. lets get the biggest singalong possible.

I'm not missing your point strat. I don't agree with your point. The point of a single is to expose people to your music. Many artists, heaven forbid, like it when people listen to their shit. Yield, everyone's sacred cow, did not release push me pull me or even do the evolution as its first single.

Your other point is asking us to assume at least in part that pearl jam is making music they don't like, trust or believe in on the assumption that because YOU don't like it THEY must not also like it. And I don't think that's true.

And I am a die hard pearl jam fan and have been for two decades. I think most of the post RA material is really good. I like it substantially more than the decade of music that preceded it. I am not a casual fan. I am one type of pearl jam fan that likes a certain facet of their sound. It's not the sound they were playing with for the decade prior. I'm glad to see that period behind them. I'm really into what they're doing now. More immediate, more direct, bigger gestures, expansive intimacy. It is the Ten/Vs approach in the bodies of older men. It won't be as good as it was, but I still think it suits them well, and I love that it's back. I wish people would stop equating a different direction and different choices with giving up or not caring.

stip wrote:

Strat wrote:Youre missing the point. Pearl Jam used to care about creating art more than reaching a massive audience. Do what they want in hopes that others attach themselves to it. Now it seems to be the opposite. Lets fill arenas. lets get the biggest singalong possible.

I'm not missing your point strat. I don't agree with your point. The point of a single is to expose people to your music. Many artists, heaven forbid, like it when people listen to their shit. Yield, everyone's sacred cow, did not release push me pull me or even do the evolution as its first single.

Your other point is asking us to assume at least in part that pearl jam is making music they don't like, trust or believe in on the assumption that because YOU don't like it THEY must not also like it. And I don't think that's true.

That "you are missing my point" was not to you. Sorry.

I do believe PJ is making music they think is great, but I also believe that what they think makes a great song these days is less in line with an artistic vision and more about a certain crowd reaction at a concert. It feels forced to me. remember, I enjoy backspacer and LB, but these are far below what I believe they are capable of as artists and musicians. I feel their creativity is at a stand still because they place too much thought on what other people think.

Most things have become very very formulaic for them. They are in this lovely little box they have created that offers them little chance for growth. That is disappointing to me as a fan because this band was growing leaps and bounds for the first 10-12 years of their career. I do enjoy Latter day Pearl Jam "for what it is" but for a band that was once far greater than that.... it is disappointing to witness. I still think they are capable but they need to shake things up within.

stip wrote:I'm really into what they're doing now. More immediate, more direct, bigger gestures, expansive intimacy. It is the Ten/Vs approach in the bodies of older men. It won't be as good as it was, but I still think it suits them well, and I love that it's back

stip wrote:And I am a die hard pearl jam fan and have been for two decades. I think most of the post RA material is really good. I like it substantially more than the decade of music that preceded it. I am not a casual fan. I am one type of pearl jam fan that likes a certain facet of their sound. It's not the sound they were playing with for the decade prior. I'm glad to see that period behind them. I'm really into what they're doing now. More immediate, more direct, bigger gestures, expansive intimacy. It is the Ten/Vs approach in the bodies of older men. It won't be as good as it was, but I still think it suits them well, and I love that it's back. I wish people would stop equating a different direction and different choices with giving up or not caring.

Yep and yep.

Remember, they alienated a SHIT TON of fans back in the day. It may not have been YOU (as in Strat et al) but it was 'most' PJ fans at that time. This time it might be you. That's sort of the whole point of following your own radar thing that people like about the "artistes". It's not always you that lucks out with liking it.

Like it or not, I think they're on the Bruce train these days instead of the Neil one, they're trying to be a 'mainstay' act. I personally believe PJ is best heard in arenas. At the theatre club level, there's a ton of artier acts that fit better in that mold than PJ. PJ is one of the best ever on that scale, rather than on the smaller "indie" scale they are okay-very good but not the best.

I think the last 3 albums are the types of albums they would have made if "grunge" never exploded. It's like if in an alternate universe Ten stayed at that manageable cult-fan scale and the band was still hungry to keep engaging fans with more direct music. That's where they've been at since S/t.

I think at some point, this phase will be over, and they'll settle comfortable back into a later era period that's closer to the Vitalogy through Riot Act years.

And it's not simply about album sales, it's about capital. They had the capital in 1994 to do Vitalogy and then follow it up with No Code. They don't have that capital in 2006. By the time you got to Riot Act, they were fully in the wilderness as far as relevancy goes. They had used up all of their capital. It was either continue shrinking or get direct again and they didn't want to ride off into the sunset. Call it Bono or Bruce level egotism if you want, but they are a band that wants to engage. I think they've built themselves up at this arena mainstay/festival headliner level where maybe they may want to go back and do more sort of selfish artistic stuff down the line as they get into their 50s.....

RIP PJ

Thejambi wrote:RIP PJ

So melodramatic. Bedwetting.

theplatypus wrote:

stip wrote:I'm really into what they're doing now. More immediate, more direct, bigger gestures, expansive intimacy. It is the Ten/Vs approach in the bodies of older men. It won't be as good as it was, but I still think it suits them well, and I love that it's back

Fair enough. They were accused of being McDonald's-like from 1991-1993. It was deafening. Do people not remember this? What do you think most of the Cobain fued was about?

stip wrote:And I am a die hard pearl jam fan and have been for two decades. I think most of the post RA material is really good. I like it substantially more than the decade of music that preceded it. I am not a casual fan. I am one type of pearl jam fan that likes a certain facet of their sound. It's not the sound they were playing with for the decade prior. I'm glad to see that period behind them. I'm really into what they're doing now. More immediate, more direct, bigger gestures, expansive intimacy. It is the Ten/Vs approach in the bodies of older men. It won't be as good as it was, but I still think it suits them well, and I love that it's back. I wish people would stop equating a different direction and different choices with giving up or not caring.

Man, I really don't want to sound like a kiss ass, but this is a great post stip. We're talking about a bunch of guys in a rock band. I can't shit on anybody who, by most accounts, keeps their operation pretty small and in-house, treats their staff great, does a tonne of charitable work (and not the kind of photo op "charitable work" most celebrities do), and generally exists to bring people together in the name of peace, happiness, equality, civil disobedience and general betterment of the human race.

Whether or not you like all the other stuff (songwriting choices, production decisions, marketing angles) boils down to personal preference. People get old, they lose their hair, and if life is pretty good, they probably do stop being quite as angry as they were when they were younger. If Pearl Jam in 2014 was the same as the Pearl Jam from 1993, which I loved, I'd probably be a lot less interested in it--because it'd be absolutely absurd. What an amazing thing that they still even exist, let alone with the vitality they still have.

As for Future Days, it's not my favourite PJ tune of all time, but it's a nice enough little song. It happens to be a love song ballad, but so what? That's where their heads are at right now. If you don't like it, go listen to something else. As borderline creepy as the Pit can be, an awful lot of people here seem to be equally obsessed with whining and moaning about what Pearl Jam isn't anymore.

guitar_davey wrote:

stip wrote:And I am a die hard pearl jam fan and have been for two decades. I think most of the post RA material is really good. I like it substantially more than the decade of music that preceded it. I am not a casual fan. I am one type of pearl jam fan that likes a certain facet of their sound. It's not the sound they were playing with for the decade prior. I'm glad to see that period behind them. I'm really into what they're doing now. More immediate, more direct, bigger gestures, expansive intimacy. It is the Ten/Vs approach in the bodies of older men. It won't be as good as it was, but I still think it suits them well, and I love that it's back. I wish people would stop equating a different direction and different choices with giving up or not caring.

Man, I really don't want to sound like a kiss ass, but this is a great post stip. We're talking about a bunch of guys in a rock band. I can't shit on anybody who, by most accounts, keeps their operation pretty small and in-house, treats their staff great, does a tonne of charitable work (and not the kind of photo op "charitable work" most celebrities do), and generally exists to bring people together in the name of peace, happiness, equality, civil disobedience and general betterment of the human race.

Whether or not you like all the other stuff (songwriting choices, production decisions, marketing angles) boils down to personal preference. People get old, they lose their hair, and if life is pretty good, they probably do stop being quite as angry as they were when they were younger. If Pearl Jam in 2014 was the same as the Pearl Jam from 1993, which I loved, I'd probably be a lot less interested in it--because it'd be absolutely absurd.

Nobody wants them to be like they were in 93. Most detractors ar ejust asking that they mature differently. They seem to be pulled in "sounding young and angsty" with not really aging gracefully. I personally think Sirens is great, but future days is the worst. Vedder can't handle vocally what he is trying to do. The band is re-creating a lot of the same type of punk rock songs. They aren't stretching their wings much anymore. Pendulum maybe but its still not much a song.

Again: I enjoy latter day PJ but its a bit under whelming.

Strat wrote:They aren't stretching their wings much anymore.

It's just a bit of rock music. It's not like they were ever that groundbreaking.

I get the arguments people make, but it is what it is. They get in a room and hammer out some songs. The people and the process would *have* to change after 20+ years. How could it not, and who are we to judge what it has changed to? I'd say they've aged pretty well personally.

The are just human beans people.

Thejambi wrote:The are just human beans people.

Cute.

Thejambi wrote:The are just human beans people.

This made me laugh, thank you

guitar_davey wrote:

Strat wrote:They aren't stretching their wings much anymore.

It's just a bit of rock music. It's not like they were ever that groundbreaking.

I get the arguments people make, but it is what it is. They get in a room and hammer out some songs. The people and the process would *have* to change after 20+ years. How could it not, and who are we to judge what it has changed to? I'd say they've aged pretty well personally.

im talking even how they go about their business as a band, how they track their records, and contrary to popular belief....their set lists aren't that huge of a surprise these days.

My god why do I talk about pearl jam as much as i do

RIP strat