Red Mosquito

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 12:10 am**

I think the problem is that they do come in with songs. Songs they've sat on so long that they are all finished in each writer's eyes. Essentially solo songs performed by the band. Man of the Hour is a great song but it isn't really much different than Ed's demo. Bypassing the ability and flavors each member of the band would have added to it if that song had just been presented as an idea.

You're not going to see another solo like Alive because no one is going to bring a song to the band with that solo or place for a solo that long. Now the solo is written and presented to the band with a 12 second solo slot and that's all we'll ever get too. Magical intros like Release, they just aren't going to happen anymore and haven't since Binaural.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 12:21 am**

The problem is they really don't give a fuck. They have other priorities in life and no change in process or division of labor is going to increase the quality if they don't care about it.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 12:25 am**

cutuphalfdead wrote:The problem is they really don't give a fuck. They have other priorities in life and no change in process or division of labor is going to increase the quality if they don't care about it.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 12:47 am**

pearl jam sucks now

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 1:57 am**

surfndestroy wrote:I think the problem is that they do come in with songs. Songs they've sat on so long that they are all finished in each writer's eyes. Essentially solo songs performed by the band. Man of the Hour is a great song but it isn't really much different than Ed's demo. Bypassing the ability and flavors each member of the band would have added to it if that song had just been presented as an idea.

You're not going to see another solo like Alive because no one is going to bring a song to the band with that solo or place for a solo that long. Now the solo is written and presented to the band with a 12 second solo slot and that's all we'll ever get too. Magical intros like Release, they just aren't going to happen anymore and haven't since Binaural.

Thing is, I think that's how they wrote Binaural. Everyone wrote their own stuff, moreso than they do now. My two cents on it is that the bigger problem is that, for whatever reason, they have a very conservative idea of what Pearl Jam's music should be. A lot of their solo work varies widely in quality, but it's often more musically adventurous than what they tend to do in PJ. Even Ed, who tends to stick to the script a bit more on his solo stuff, is willing to make a whole record out of songs performed on ukulele. That's not to say they were going totally avant-garde in the past, but I think they had a bit more of an amorphous idea of what Pearl Jam music could sound like.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 2:13 am**

they need a different drummer to juice things up

this band was always switching drummers every couple of years

like a kinky group thing always keeping it fresh

then they got all married up to one drummer

and the doing it lost its passion

without a new drummer keeping it exciting, they got all just missionary, missionary, missionary

and the only thing they can do to spice it up is think about other bands now while they do it; like dead kennedys, roger waters, and whoever else they try to sound like on various new songs

gotta bring in some new flesh

or maybe, re-kindle an old flame <wma roto toms fade in...>

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 4:22 am**

digster wrote:
surfndestroy wrote:I think the problem is that they do come in with songs. Songs they've sat on so long that they are all finished in each writer's eyes. Essentially solo songs performed by the band. Man of the Hour is a great song but it isn't really much different than Ed's demo. Bypassing the ability and flavors each member of the band would have added to it if that song had just been presented as an idea.

You're not going to see another solo like Alive because no one is going to bring a song to the band with that solo or place for a solo that long. Now the solo is written and presented to the band with a 12 second solo slot and that's all we'll ever get too. Magical intros like Release, they just aren't going to happen anymore and haven't since Binaural.
Thing is, I think that's how they wrote Binaural. Everyone wrote their own stuff, moreso than they do now. My two cents on it is that the bigger problem is that, for whatever reason, they have a very conservative idea of what Pearl Jam's music should be. A lot of their solo work varies widely in quality, but it's often more musically adventurous than what they tend to do in PJ. Even Ed, who tends to stick to the script a bit more on his solo stuff, is willing to make a whole record out of songs performed on ukulele. That's not to say they were going totally avant-garde in the past, but I think they had a bit more of an amorphous idea of what Pearl Jam music could sound like.

Exactly. That's been my problem with them since S/T. That was the point where they went from a reasonably experimental rock band to a total alterna-dad-rock snoozefest with no more value than Matchbox 20 or any of those other boring 90's bands. And in terms of live performance, they held on for one more tour (2006) and then pretty much hit the wall altogether. In my opinion, there is no reason to buy their albums or see them live anymore. Sad, but true.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 4:28 am**

96583UP wrote: without a new drummer keeping it exciting, they got all just missionary, missionary, missionary

and the only thing they can do to spice it up is think about other bands now while they do it;

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 10:03 am**

Wendy Carlos's Twin wrote:
digster wrote:
surfndestroy wrote:I think the problem is that they do come in with songs. Songs they've sat on so long that they are all finished in each writer's eyes. Essentially solo songs performed by the band. Man of the Hour is a great song but it isn't really much different than Ed's demo. Bypassing the ability and flavors each member of the band would have added to it if that song had just been presented as an idea.

You're not going to see another solo like Alive because no one is going to bring a song to the band with that solo or place for a solo that long. Now the solo is written and presented to the band with a 12 second solo slot and that's all we'll ever get too. Magical intros like Release, they just aren't going to happen anymore and haven't since Binaural.
Thing is, I think that's how they wrote Binaural. Everyone wrote their own stuff, moreso than they do now. My two cents on it is that the bigger problem is that, for whatever reason, they have a very conservative idea of what Pearl Jam's music should be. A lot of their solo work varies widely in quality, but it's often more musically adventurous than what they tend to do in PJ. Even Ed, who tends to stick to the script a bit more on his solo stuff, is willing to make a whole record out of songs performed on ukulele. That's not to say they were going totally avant-garde in the past, but I think they had a bit more of an amorphous idea of what Pearl Jam music could sound like.
Exactly. That's been my problem with them since S/T. That was the point where they went from a reasonably experimental rock band to a total alterna-dad-rock snoozefest with no more value than Matchbox 20 or any of those other boring 90's bands. And in terms of live performance, they held on for one more tour (2006) and then pretty much hit the wall altogether. In my opinion, there is no reason to buy their albums or see them live anymore. Sad, but true.

I think this turned out to be their end game because, as chud said they care less at this point in their lives, but also because they aren't a very good fit for each other from a song writing stand point. These days they are more willing to sacrifice their individual artistic visions for a smoother writing process.
On the other hand though, i think their current style is what most of the band always wanted when they were sceptical about the direction they polemic records were taking.
Solo artists ala Bowie have the luxury of changing collaborators when what they have to express together artistically is extinct. With bands that opt to stick together that's not really an option which results in the relatively uninteresting polite collaborative efforts that we've seen released for the last 10 years.

I don't think any substantial shift towards avant-garde / art side of rock was ever a real option or could be any good. If any of them had anything worthwhile to offer in that direction they would have by now in whatever setting. Very little of their outside of PJ projects gained any real attention outside a fraction of the PJ fan base.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 11:16 am**

cutuphalfdead wrote:The problem is they really don't give a fuck. They have other priorities in life and no change in process or division of labor is going to increase the quality if they don't care about it.

That's probably an overstatement, but I'm sure there's some truth to this if it is unpacked a bit

1. Pearl jam is a part time enterprise.

That's fine with me. I'd prefer more, obviously, but they are at the stage in their career when most bands have broken up. I never saw the need for that. REM couldn't just get together now and play some shows or record some songs without it being an event. Pearl jam can make music when they want, tour when they want, for as long or as little as they want. That's a good deal for them.

Note that I do think when they get together they do care about what they are doing, though they make safe choices - be it due to a controlling sense of what pj should be (and a slow production cycle means you aren't likely to challenge that) or a desire to preserve relationships or whatever

2. They have nothing to prove.

This is almost certainly a first ballot RnR hall of fame band, and one of the 5 most important bands of their generation. They had the career they dreamed of. They get to play the elder statesmen of rock role that was probably baked into their DNA from the beginning. Their new material is still commercially and critically successful (something easy to forget in our misanthropic little echo chamber), though hardly game changing. Their shows still sell out with fans who actually allow them to play their entire catalog, and the shows are still excellent to the fans in attendance

So I agree you aren't likely to see a titanic shift. It is harder for a band to realign for a creative shifts especially when there is seemingly little need for it outside of a small disgruntled corner of the Internet. Everyone has their other outputs for their needs that can't be met in their committed relationship. It's likely every few years we are gonna get a new album full of songs that sound like an older band full of accomplished musicians writing songs that are in their comfort zone (so a few mild derivations from a well worn formula) sung by an aging singer who cannot always reach the old notes his most committed fans still have ringing inside their head.

I'm fine with that, since I still love the template, and any new album is still more music for the canon, and after 4 years I want more songs. It is true that, if what you are looking for is something 'different' (though if we are honest for many of us different really means a faithful reproduction of a different established aesthetic from the bands history than the one they happened to have chosen), you are a lot less likely to get it this way. On the other hand, the 'standard' pearl jam record every four years still sounds really good to me, and that safe approach would wear thin a lot more quickly every two years

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 11:25 am**

Given their history the thing that is most likely to motivate them to sound different is a horde of imitators they need to distinguish themselves from. If the only person out there who sounds like pearl jam is pearl jam that's not a great incentive to change - provided you think it's good to have someone representing that sound.

Lighting Bolt reviews did have a few comments about the album feeling safe (which I think is more indicative of BoBs choices than the song writing). If we get another record with that feel it will be interesting to see how the wider world receives it, and how the band responds

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 1:26 pm**

They're much less pearl now, just mostly jam.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 1:50 pm**

jam is a delicious breakfast spread, Sarge

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 3:12 pm**

stip wrote:Given their history the thing that is most likely to motivate them to sound different is a horde of imitators they need to distinguish themselves from. If the only person out there who sounds like pearl jam is pearl jam that's not a great incentive to change - provided you think it's good to have someone representing that sound.

The issue at this point is that they are risking to sound like some lowest common denominator sound of every rock band ever as in they don't have much of any distinctive feature to their music that isn't Eddie Vedder's voice.
I think no one has been trying to emulate them for a while now.

stip wrote:Lighting Bolt reviews did have a few comments about the album feeling safe (which I think is more indicative of BoBs choices than the song writing). If we get another record with that feel it will be interesting to see how the wider world receives it, and how the band responds

I think the reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt as it seems as the current trend is to have them written by critics who happen to be fans.
Their song writing was always on the safe side so what may be BOB's choices is what ended up making the difference most of the time.

My impression is that they have a really poor musical legacy relative to their stature as far as the general public is concerned. The impression i get from reviews and occasional articles about them is that what they are mostly known for is the "grunge"/Seattle/Kurt Cobain connection, ethos/Ticket master thing, Ten as the representative albums and a handful of what are in practice minor hits, in this order.

Their current output does nothing to improve or cement their (future) legacy as the records in question have zero staying power as far as the general public and a good chunk of the fan base is concerned. They're turning themselves into being the representatives because-still-active band of the early 90's Seattle scene, but with barely any music someone who isn't a fan could name. Again especially relative to their stature.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 3:13 pm**

They need to rise from the ashes and return to form with a mix of classic rock, punk, and power ballads

Oh, wait. That's probably why they don't give a fuck anymore. Been there, done that.
.
.
.
Maybe they need to experiment with new songwriting techniques, sounds, and collaborative approaches, breaking new ground in the late stages of their career like other solo artists have done.

Oh, wait. This is a band, and they all have to agree on everything.
.
.
.
So....

Fuck it, they're just going to put out more safe, boring shit, without really preparing or investing much time into the creation of their art. They'll just show up with a few tunes each, vote on the ones they like the most, Ed will subject himself to the horrible, grueling, unenviable task of actually writing lyrics, and somebody will slap some artwork on the package.

Then, they'll go tour, make a bunch of money, and repeat. Each successive iteration will take one year longer than the last, until one of them dies.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 4:03 pm**

Lighting Bolt reviews did have a few comments about the album feeling safe

They have reached that special combination of long-lived and consistently unremarkable which always produces perfunctorily positive reviews. There aren't high expectations enough to warrant critical disappointment, there isn't interest enough to want creative growth, and the band has survived long enough to get a distinctly uninterested kind of respect. In the end, every review has to remind us that they are mostly a touring band. Half the reviews might as well say "I don't really care and neither do you, but boy do they have some fans."

They are Jimmy Buffett.

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 4:11 pm**

pearl jam sucks now

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 4:25 pm**

Ouch.

Can't see much to argue with though, either.

Man I wish it wasn't so. Imagine one last great album.

Imagine...

Oh God. That's the problem right there. A band that can trundle out tripe such as that obviously just don't have it in them anymore do they?

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 4:28 pm**

stip wrote:the 'standard' pearl jam record every four years still sounds really good to me

I know I'm in the minority here, but I usually find myself agreeing with Stip on many things. Cheers!

Posted: **Fri January 15, 2016 5:45 pm**

McParadigm wrote:
Lighting Bolt reviews did have a few comments about the album feeling safe
They have reached that special combination of long-lived and consistently unremarkable which always produces perfunctorily positive reviews. There aren't high expectations enough to warrant critical disappointment, there isn't interest enough to want creative growth, and the band has survived long enough to get a distinctly uninterested kind of respect. In the end, every review has to remind us that they are mostly a touring band. Half the reviews might as well say "I don't really care and neither do you, but boy do they have some fans."

They are Jimmy Buffett.

...and a tour band is all they seem to be. I don't think they're consider either a singles or albums band as far as the actual music is concerned also indicating their recording legacy is somewhat week.

I was surprised that Bowie never had a #1 Billboard album and sold just about 170 mio records considering his stature and legacy and long lasting influence.
Pearl Jam is essentially the opposite. Respectable record sells, a lot of #1 records yet little long standing impact and musical legacy.

Red Mosquito

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