Red Mosquito

sportsfreakpete6 wrote:

elliseamos wrote:enjoy Timmy Time, philly-phlyer phans.

If Homer can get a one yaer deal for Jagr money, I have no problem with it if it's the best low-risk, short term option on the market.

I don't know, the guy hasn't played in over a year. I'm sure he's kept himself in good shape, but not hockey shape.

I can't believe that Smith and Bob both got $6m, that's nuts. At least Bob's deal is only two years.

shinkdew wrote:

sportsfreakpete6 wrote:

elliseamos wrote:enjoy Timmy Time, philly-phlyer phans.

If Homer can get a one yaer deal for Jagr money, I have no problem with it if it's the best low-risk, short term option on the market.

I don't know, the guy hasn't played in over a year. I'm sure he's kept himself in good shape, but not hockey shape.

I can't believe that Smith and Bob both got $6m, that's nuts. At least Bob's deal is only two years.

Yeah that Mike Smith deal is pretty nuts, especially for the Phoenix organization.

For TT, I think he just wants a chance to play for USA again. And like I said, I don't think a lot more is out there available a whole tier better than what Steve Mason or a rusty Thomas can do

Not surprising, but the Islanders will use a compliance buyout on Rick DiPietro. It makes you wonder though, if the Islanders with their limited resources could buyout DiPietro, why couldn't Vancouver buyout Luongo?

shinkdew wrote:Not surprising, but the Islanders will use a compliance buyout on Rick DiPietro. It makes you wonder though, if the Islanders with their limited resources could buyout DiPietro, why couldn't Vancouver buyout Luongo?

b/c they're dumb.

sportsfreakpete6 wrote:

shinkdew wrote:

sportsfreakpete6 wrote:

elliseamos wrote:enjoy Timmy Time, philly-phlyer phans.

If Homer can get a one yaer deal for Jagr money, I have no problem with it if it's the best low-risk, short term option on the market.

I don't know, the guy hasn't played in over a year. I'm sure he's kept himself in good shape, but not hockey shape.

I can't believe that Smith and Bob both got $6m, that's nuts. At least Bob's deal is only two years.

Yeah that Mike Smith deal is pretty nuts, especially for the Phoenix organization.

For TT, I think he just wants a chance to play for USA again. And like I said, I don't think a lot more is out there available a whole tier better than what Steve Mason or a rusty Thomas can do

TT can go suck a nut. knowing the flyers, they will sign him to 2 years.

bob's deal is pretty fair for both sides. if he continues the same play columbus gets a discount for 2 years and bob gets another big pay day.

philpritchard wrote:I like the Schneider trade for everyone. I thought all along that Vancouver was better off trading Schneider: it basically boils down to Luongo + 9th overall vs. Schneider. That seems like a really obvious choice considering the goalies seem pretty similar and they're in win-now mode anyway.

New Jersey really needed a replacement for Brodeur, and now they have a good one.

I think it's horrible return for Vancouver. Schneider was a first rounder that Canucks have invested millions of dollars, brought from being a prospect to being a legitimate starting goalie. In return, Vancouver gets a player who can possibly help them 2 or 3 years from now and will require another couple million invested in the player. There is absolutely no risk for New Jersey in this deal, and they get a player who can play for them immediately. Vancouver takes on all the risk and don't have a player to help them this year.

Gillis may have gotten the best deal he could have but the spot he got himself into was entirely of his own making. Gillis has entered Mike Milbury levels of incompetence.

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:I like the Schneider trade for everyone. I thought all along that Vancouver was better off trading Schneider: it basically boils down to Luongo + 9th overall vs. Schneider. That seems like a really obvious choice considering the goalies seem pretty similar and they're in win-now mode anyway.

New Jersey really needed a replacement for Brodeur, and now they have a good one.

I think it's horrible return for Vancouver. Schneider was a first rounder that Canucks have invested millions of dollars, brought from being a prospect to being a legitimate starting goalie. In return, Vancouver gets a player who can possibly help them 2 or 3 years from now and will require another couple million invested in the player. There is absolutely no risk for New Jersey in this deal, and they get a player who can play for them immediately. Vancouver takes on all the risk and don't have a player to help them this year.

You can't really be looking at money invested in developing prospects as a negative thing, can you? I agree that Gillis messed up by not trading Luongo last summer, but that return is about the most you can expect to get for a goalie of Schneider's calibre. The 9th overall pick is an extremely valuable commodity (take a look at recent comments from teams who wanted to move into the top 10 and couldn't because the asking price was unbelievably high). Goalies just don't generally have that much value on the trade market. What similar goalies have brought back a better return?

philpritchard wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:I like the Schneider trade for everyone. I thought all along that Vancouver was better off trading Schneider: it basically boils down to Luongo + 9th overall vs. Schneider. That seems like a really obvious choice considering the goalies seem pretty similar and they're in win-now mode anyway.

New Jersey really needed a replacement for Brodeur, and now they have a good one.

I think it's horrible return for Vancouver. Schneider was a first rounder that Canucks have invested millions of dollars, brought from being a prospect to being a legitimate starting goalie. In return, Vancouver gets a player who can possibly help them 2 or 3 years from now and will require another couple million invested in the player. There is absolutely no risk for New Jersey in this deal, and they get a player who can play for them immediately. Vancouver takes on all the risk and don't have a player to help them this year.

You can't really be looking at money invested in developing prospects as a negative thing, can you? I agree that Gillis messed up by not trading Luongo last summer, but that return is about the most you can expect to get for a goalie of Schneider's calibre. The 9th overall pick is an extremely valuable commodity (take a look at recent comments from teams who wanted to move into the top 10 and couldn't because the asking price was unbelievably high). Goalies just don't generally have that much value on the trade market. What similar goalies have brought back a better return?

Canucks needed someone who can make them better now. With the cap lowering and getting rid of Schneider, the Canucks go into next season looking almost identical to last year. But with their backup goalie in nets and moving into a much harder division. Torts is not going to get that much more out of the Canucks than Vigneault did.

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:I like the Schneider trade for everyone. I thought all along that Vancouver was better off trading Schneider: it basically boils down to Luongo + 9th overall vs. Schneider. That seems like a really obvious choice considering the goalies seem pretty similar and they're in win-now mode anyway.

New Jersey really needed a replacement for Brodeur, and now they have a good one.

I think it's horrible return for Vancouver. Schneider was a first rounder that Canucks have invested millions of dollars, brought from being a prospect to being a legitimate starting goalie. In return, Vancouver gets a player who can possibly help them 2 or 3 years from now and will require another couple million invested in the player. There is absolutely no risk for New Jersey in this deal, and they get a player who can play for them immediately. Vancouver takes on all the risk and don't have a player to help them this year.

Gillis may have gotten the best deal he could have but the spot he got himself into was entirely of his own making. Gillis has entered Mike Milbury levels of incompetence.

yes, a legitimate starting goalie, not a top ten goalie, not a top five, not a vezina winning goalie, a legitimate starting goalie...and for that they got a top ten pick in the draft and some salary cap relief (though them not buying out Ballard is puzzling)...there are very few goalies who would bring that return, to be honest, I would not have thought Schneider to be one of them...dude all but lost the starting job to Luongo last year

This team will be much better defensively, they will get a lot more out of Ballard and Garrison with Torts (just as the Rangers might end up ruining McDonough by hiring AV), the goaltending distraction will be gone, and hopefully health (Kesler, Booth) will be on their side for once

Personally, if they're that determined not to use the buyouts, I'd consider trading the Sedins...they only have one year left anyway, I'm not convinced they'll ever win with them leading the team, I can't see them succeeding under Tortorella (what's the over under on how many days before he has them in tears?), and it would give them an opportunity to reload on prospects while freeing them up to completely retool the team for this year

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:I like the Schneider trade for everyone. I thought all along that Vancouver was better off trading Schneider: it basically boils down to Luongo + 9th overall vs. Schneider. That seems like a really obvious choice considering the goalies seem pretty similar and they're in win-now mode anyway.

New Jersey really needed a replacement for Brodeur, and now they have a good one.

I think it's horrible return for Vancouver. Schneider was a first rounder that Canucks have invested millions of dollars, brought from being a prospect to being a legitimate starting goalie. In return, Vancouver gets a player who can possibly help them 2 or 3 years from now and will require another couple million invested in the player. There is absolutely no risk for New Jersey in this deal, and they get a player who can play for them immediately. Vancouver takes on all the risk and don't have a player to help them this year.

You can't really be looking at money invested in developing prospects as a negative thing, can you? I agree that Gillis messed up by not trading Luongo last summer, but that return is about the most you can expect to get for a goalie of Schneider's calibre. The 9th overall pick is an extremely valuable commodity (take a look at recent comments from teams who wanted to move into the top 10 and couldn't because the asking price was unbelievably high). Goalies just don't generally have that much value on the trade market. What similar goalies have brought back a better return?

Canucks needed someone who can make them better now. With the cap lowering and getting rid of Schneider, the Canucks go into next season looking almost identical to last year. But with their backup goalie in nets and moving into a much harder division. Torts is not going to get that much more out of the Canucks than Vigneault did.

I definitely agree that they should have gone for someone who could help now, especially since trading Schneider instead of Luongo suggests they're looking at winning now. Having said that, though, I don't think any team would have given up a roster player anywhere near as valuable as the 9th pick.

philpritchard wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:I like the Schneider trade for everyone. I thought all along that Vancouver was better off trading Schneider: it basically boils down to Luongo + 9th overall vs. Schneider. That seems like a really obvious choice considering the goalies seem pretty similar and they're in win-now mode anyway.

New Jersey really needed a replacement for Brodeur, and now they have a good one.

I think it's horrible return for Vancouver. Schneider was a first rounder that Canucks have invested millions of dollars, brought from being a prospect to being a legitimate starting goalie. In return, Vancouver gets a player who can possibly help them 2 or 3 years from now and will require another couple million invested in the player. There is absolutely no risk for New Jersey in this deal, and they get a player who can play for them immediately. Vancouver takes on all the risk and don't have a player to help them this year.

You can't really be looking at money invested in developing prospects as a negative thing, can you? I agree that Gillis messed up by not trading Luongo last summer, but that return is about the most you can expect to get for a goalie of Schneider's calibre. The 9th overall pick is an extremely valuable commodity (take a look at recent comments from teams who wanted to move into the top 10 and couldn't because the asking price was unbelievably high). Goalies just don't generally have that much value on the trade market. What similar goalies have brought back a better return?

Canucks needed someone who can make them better now. With the cap lowering and getting rid of Schneider, the Canucks go into next season looking almost identical to last year. But with their backup goalie in nets and moving into a much harder division. Torts is not going to get that much more out of the Canucks than Vigneault did.

I definitely agree that they should have gone for someone who could help now, especially since trading Schneider instead of Luongo suggests they're looking at winning now. Having said that, though, I don't think any team would have given up a roster player anywhere near as valuable as the 9th pick.

LA didn't get great return for Bernier but they did get some immediate help. I can't see a single Canuck being happy with the way the Luongo issue was handled nor with the return for Schneider. Players want to win now, aging players need to win now.
Gillis has now done a couple of these trades that give up players who can play now for players who may be good somewhere down the road. Hodgson for Kassian, this Schneider deal. I think Gillis feels his job is to amass the best talent, like he's still an agent. It's not, his job is to amass the best team. If he kept that in mind, maybe the Canucks would have more than one d-man who shoots right. Maybe the Canucks would not constantly be trying to catch up to the changing landscape, CBA and other "I'm a loser" excuses Gillis spouts. Chicago, LA and Boston have managed to keep abreast of teh changing landscape and CBA. So it's not that it can't be done, its just not being done by Gillis.

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

surfndestroy wrote:

philpritchard wrote:I like the Schneider trade for everyone. I thought all along that Vancouver was better off trading Schneider: it basically boils down to Luongo + 9th overall vs. Schneider. That seems like a really obvious choice considering the goalies seem pretty similar and they're in win-now mode anyway.

New Jersey really needed a replacement for Brodeur, and now they have a good one.

I think it's horrible return for Vancouver. Schneider was a first rounder that Canucks have invested millions of dollars, brought from being a prospect to being a legitimate starting goalie. In return, Vancouver gets a player who can possibly help them 2 or 3 years from now and will require another couple million invested in the player. There is absolutely no risk for New Jersey in this deal, and they get a player who can play for them immediately. Vancouver takes on all the risk and don't have a player to help them this year.

You can't really be looking at money invested in developing prospects as a negative thing, can you? I agree that Gillis messed up by not trading Luongo last summer, but that return is about the most you can expect to get for a goalie of Schneider's calibre. The 9th overall pick is an extremely valuable commodity (take a look at recent comments from teams who wanted to move into the top 10 and couldn't because the asking price was unbelievably high). Goalies just don't generally have that much value on the trade market. What similar goalies have brought back a better return?

Canucks needed someone who can make them better now. With the cap lowering and getting rid of Schneider, the Canucks go into next season looking almost identical to last year. But with their backup goalie in nets and moving into a much harder division. Torts is not going to get that much more out of the Canucks than Vigneault did.

I definitely agree that they should have gone for someone who could help now, especially since trading Schneider instead of Luongo suggests they're looking at winning now. Having said that, though, I don't think any team would have given up a roster player anywhere near as valuable as the 9th pick.

LA didn't get great return for Bernier but they did get some immediate help. I can't see a single Canuck being happy with the way the Luongo issue was handled nor with the return for Schneider. Players want to win now, aging players need to win now.
Gillis has now done a couple of these trades that give up players who can play now for players who may be good somewhere down the road. Hodgson for Kassian, this Schneider deal. I think Gillis feels his job is to amass the best talent, like he's still an agent. It's not, his job is to amass the best team. If he kept that in mind, maybe the Canucks would have more than one d-man who shoots right. Maybe the Canucks would not constantly be trying to catch up to the changing landscape, CBA and other "I'm a loser" excuses Gillis spouts. Chicago, LA and Boston have managed to keep abreast of teh changing landscape and CBA. So it's not that it can't be done, its just not being done by Gillis.

that Kassian deal infuriates me to this day...much more so than the Schneider deal

MattA75 wrote:that Kassian deal infuriates me to this day...much more so than the Schneider deal

The part that burns me on the whole Hodgson caper is how Gillis justifies the deal by saying half the time he spent dealing with active players was spent on Hodgson. Gillis should have expected that since his medical staff misdiagnosed Hodgson's injuries and recovery. Then Gillis' coach called out Hodgson for being out of shape during the time of ineffective rehab due to misdiagnosis. Hodgson had every right for his agent to be taking up Gillis' time and questioning his and his staff's competence.
Gillis has done some really good things; re-signing players, diet coaches, sleep programs to help deal with the worst travel schedule in the NHL. However, he hasn't fixed Vancouver's poor drafting and player development issue, he's awful at dealing with issues in a timely manner allowing them to balloon (Luongo, Hodgson, Ballard, farm team affiliate), his constantly changing vison for the club and his lame "changing landscape and CBA" excuses.
Ballard - should have been traded a month after getting him. The moment Vigneault decided he didn't like or trust Ballard as a player Gillis should have traded him.
Hodgson - the team just booted that one all over the place and never really seemed to accept any responsibility for it either.
Luongo - should have been dealt the moment Vigneault decided he was not Vancouver's number one back during the 2012/13 season.
The Farm Team - this was a joke the way it was handled and affects player development.
Gillis is far from the worst GM but his refusal to deal with issues should have had him fired at the end of this past season.

surfndestroy wrote:

MattA75 wrote:that Kassian deal infuriates me to this day...much more so than the Schneider deal

The part that burns me on the whole Hodgson caper is how Gillis justifies the deal by saying half the time he spent dealing with active players was spent on Hodgson. Gillis should have expected that since his medical staff misdiagnosed Hodgson's injuries and recovery. Then Gillis' coach called out Hodgson for being out of shape during the time of ineffective rehab due to misdiagnosis. Hodgson had every right for his agent to be taking up Gillis' time and questioning his and his staff's competence.
Gillis has done some really good things; re-signing players, diet coaches, sleep programs to help deal with the worst travel schedule in the NHL. However, he hasn't fixed Vancouver's poor drafting and player development issue, he's awful at dealing with issues in a timely manner allowing them to balloon (Luongo, Hodgson, Ballard, farm team affiliate), his constantly changing vison for the club and his lame "changing landscape and CBA" excuses.
Ballard - should have been traded a month after getting him. The moment Vigneault decided he didn't like or trust Ballard as a player Gillis should have traded him.
Hodgson - the team just booted that one all over the place and never really seemed to accept any responsibility for it either.
Luongo - should have been dealt the moment Vigneault decided he was not Vancouver's number one back during the 2012/13 season.
The Farm Team - this was a joke the way it was handled and affects player development.
Gillis is far from the worst GM but his refusal to deal with issues should have had him fired at the end of this past season.

What pisses me off most about Gillis is that he didn't fire Vigneault's ass after that 2011 final...I won't get into it here again but AV should've been fired the night of game 7 as soon as the game was over

closely following that is his obsession with European players in the draft that never amount to anything

it's funny, I know Gillis hasn't been good, but I have way more vitriol for Vigneault than I do for Gillis

players can talk to teams starting tonight.

i'm excited.

Flyers sign Lecavalier, 5 years, $22.5m., also includes a full no movement clause.

shinkdew wrote:Flyers sign Lecavalier, 5 years, $22.5m., also includes a full no movement clause.

good for him. maybe being in a new place will bring his game of a few years ago back.

shinkdew wrote:Flyers sign Lecavalier, 5 years, $22.5m., also includes a full no movement clause.

Hello better, younger and considerably cheaper Danny Briere.

Flyers continuing to prove players want to play there (regardless of a few overpaid players: Bryz, Streit): Jagr and now Vinny (the top coveted player of offseason) both were brought in not above market value.

If Coburn trade rumors are true, we'll have plenty of space opening up after upcoming season for Giroux and others. Everyone really concerned about our cap space really isn't paying attention.

The only true continuing concerns are goaltending, and that was going to be true whether Vinny were here or not.

paul lolmgren

elliseamos wrote:

shinkdew wrote:Flyers sign Lecavalier, 5 years, $22.5m., also includes a full no movement clause.

good for him. maybe being in a new place will bring his game of a few years ago back.

you mean the 65-70 points a season he's averaged for like the past 4 or 5?

Sounds good to me