Red Mosquito

digster wrote:

Tuolumne wrote:
I understand that. The last 3 albums haven't been breakway hits, but they've all been moderately successful. The other direction of that is shrinking from Riot Act. To put numbers to it, proportionally speaking, Riot Act would have sold 200k-250k max in 2014. Shrinking from that, they've be well below that if the "stuck to their guns". So, I'd argue that the last 3 albums, holding to my "moderately successful" assumption, has 'come back' fairly well. They're much more on a Bruce track right now, rather than like a late-Black Crowes or later-REM or later Jackson Browne track.

I think you may be looking at what they're trying to be vs. what they actually are. On this dead period of PJ's existence, they sold out MSG two nights in a row. As I said, there's nothing to suggest that they were on a 'downhill' course in terms of their popularity or fanbase; does anyone really think if they had maintained the popularity they had with Riot Act, they'd have trouble filling arenas today? There's also no evidence that they've had this massive explosion of popularity. There's still playing the same places about the same amount overall.

And I'd never say they've had a "massive explosion". It's not U2 in 2001. But it prevented an exodus and kept the band relevant to a certain fanbase that's a little outside the TenClub but are still fans.

I consider myself a Bruce and Neil fan, or an Arcade Fire or Arctic Monkeys or MMJ fan, but I have only 2-3 of each of their records, or just 1 on some cases. PJ have successfully brought some of those fans back in. And those are worthy fans. Now, they haven't penetrated the average 16 year old, and they probably never will. But they've now set themselves up in such a way that they've become a sort of rock standard-bearer which a small slice of youngsters that are inclined to look back into older artist catalogues may want to look into. The work they've put in since 2006 has helped their cause toward that.

Tuolumne wrote:Now, they haven't penetrated the average 16 year old, and they probably never will.

That's where Human Bass draws the line.

I wish people would stop equating a different direction and different choices with giving up or not caring.

I'd call it "caring less", which they absolutely do. They have other priorities, and it shows in their music, from songwriting to execution. Attributing their recent change in direction solely to sheer artistic expression is highly unlikely to be correct. This is what they want to do, but its based on lots of things, not just music.

This is only my opinion of course. There are a host of reasons I think this, and they have been listed time after time after time by me and everyone else, opinions which are simply dismissed by Stip as "they just don't like it". My opinion on this has nothing to do with the fact I don't like the music. There are tons of bands I don't particularly like, but respect that they have different taste. PRAMG PJ is not one of those bands. Their taste hasn't changed that dramatically, but their ability to execute, their motivations, and their priorities have, all for the worse, from a music making standpoint. i'm sure they are all just deliriously happy. Good for them.

Of course, Stip will just ignore all this, and incredulously bring up his points again in a couple of weeks anyway, as if none of these conversations have ever taken place, and we will all repeat the usually talking points again.

This is our hell, and one we have chosen for ourselves.

Tuolumne wrote:
I think they would have. The Riot Act tour was not as successful as you may think. They've been much more successful now then they were around that time.

I'm not really sure what else I could say; they play about the same places, sell about the same amount of records, and get about the same amount of critical acclaim. Do the numbers go up or down slightly? Sure, but my main argument still stands; you're acting like they've had this cultural renaissance with a big influx of new fans, and there's not much to support that. I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing, it just is; other than festivals, which they do a shit ton more of now, they pretty much play the same places, even the same regions, than they did ten years ago.

Your comment about the Riot Act tour supports what I'm saying. They had a rough time in the South that tour and since then have managed to make one cursory tour through the region in the past eleven years. Does that sound like a band that's increasing in popularity?

Tuolumne wrote:Now, they haven't penetrated the average 16 year old

fuck you platypuss

Yours was better.

digster wrote:

Lament wrote:I just want the songs to stop sucking. I don't fucking care what they sound like.

I think in general there's always far too much conversation about people's neuroses or their biases or whatever in these conversations. I think for most people here that are critical, it is as simple as you put it.

Yeah. I mean, I get that there's some oversimplification here, but a lot of people act like the reason some of us don't like the new material is based on some sort of principle of what these songs "are" or "aren't." If it seems that way, it's because people are trying to figure out why the material they're coming up with isn't striking them as good anymore, not because coming up with the material in that manner is necessary to an enjoyable finished product.

All that being said, most of us don't need the songs to be in a specific style. They had great rockers, introspective slow-burners, thinly-veiled pop gems, off-kilter "experiments," lengthy mood pieces, and quirky barn-burners at the height of their powers. As long as what they're doing is good, (most) people here will respond accordingly.

theplatypus wrote:Yours was better.

Yes.

it's because people are trying to figure out why the material they're coming up with isn't striking them as good anymore

this is accurate for me. i tried to explain it the other day to someone (also a Pearl Jam fan) and their reply was- they're only human, you expect too much. the music over the last few albums has been good just not great.

i'd argue that i can't listen to the last few albums at all in light of their earlier catalog of excellence. i'm only human.

guitar_davey wrote:

Lament wrote:I just want the songs to stop sucking. I don't fucking care what they sound like.

Which is your opinion.

Still pointing out that something is "just an opinion" on a message board about a purveyor of a creative artform and the quality of specific pieces of said art in 2014 is definitely high quality posting*. What great insight*. Thank you for this.

*These are just opinions. I wouldn't want you to get the impression that they won't, so from now on I will star things that are opinions so that you don't have to point out that that's what they are.

Lament wrote:

guitar_davey wrote:

Lament wrote:I just want the songs to stop sucking. I don't fucking care what they sound like.

Which is your opinion.

Still pointing out that something is "just an opinion" on a message board about a purveyor of a creative artform and the quality of specific pieces of said art in 2014 is definitely high quality posting*. What great insight*. Thank you for this.

*These are just opinions. I wouldn't want you to get the impression that they won't, so from now on I will star things that are opinions so that you don't have to point out that that's what they are.

thats just like your opinion, man.

just get an asterisk added to the beginning of your username, *Lament.

no, wait - someone should just add it the the RM web address

to the whole of the internet - immediate clarification

Lets only quote facts from here on out.

This song "Future Days" sure has an acoustic guitar in it.

You can purchase the Pearl Jam album called "Lightning Bolt" in several different formats.

Eddie Vedder is a person.

BurtReynolds wrote:Eddie Vedder is a person.

pearl jam is, in fact, composed of people

BurtReynolds wrote:Eddie Vedder is a person.

We said only facts, Burt

stip wrote:When songs like Not For You, Betterman, and Nothingman have to get in line behind songs like Immortality, Corduroy, Tremor Christ, and Last Exit you're not even dealing with something made by humans anymore.

That goes for you too, malice