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Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 3:45 pm
by Fuck You Jobu
@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:it's a completely stupid rule (there being no judgement, it just is what it is), it belies every ounce of common sense, and that press conference with the umpires was an embarrassment to the entire game of baseball ("well, Middlebrooks just needs to get out of the way")
so yes, technically they called the rule correctly...and now everyone realizes how stupid that rule is and it will be changed this offseason, after it's very likely altered the course of a World Series
Im sure this viewpoint has nothing to do with the fact the call went against the team that you chose to root for.
would I be as pissed? Probably not...doesn't change the fact that the rule sucks, the press conference after embarrassed the game, and this dumb rule has now affected the championship series of the sport
It's a totally required rule. Baserunners have to avoid interfering with a batted ball, defenders have to avoid interfering with a baserunner.
Yep.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 4:20 pm
by MattA75
@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:it's a completely stupid rule (there being no judgement, it just is what it is), it belies every ounce of common sense, and that press conference with the umpires was an embarrassment to the entire game of baseball ("well, Middlebrooks just needs to get out of the way")
so yes, technically they called the rule correctly...and now everyone realizes how stupid that rule is and it will be changed this offseason, after it's very likely altered the course of a World Series
Im sure this viewpoint has nothing to do with the fact the call went against the team that you chose to root for.
would I be as pissed? Probably not...doesn't change the fact that the rule sucks, the press conference after embarrassed the game, and this dumb rule has now affected the championship series of the sport
It's a totally required rule. Baserunners have to avoid interfering with a batted ball, defenders have to avoid interfering with a baserunner.
so what was Middlebrooks supposed to do exactly?
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 4:32 pm
by numbers
By the letter of the rule, the umps made the right call. It's just a tough pill to swallow when that call is made to end a World Series game. I've kind of been expecting a call like this to go against the sox after matheny's bitching after game one.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 5:29 pm
by Fuck You Jobu
MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:it's a completely stupid rule (there being no judgement, it just is what it is), it belies every ounce of common sense, and that press conference with the umpires was an embarrassment to the entire game of baseball ("well, Middlebrooks just needs to get out of the way")
so yes, technically they called the rule correctly...and now everyone realizes how stupid that rule is and it will be changed this offseason, after it's very likely altered the course of a World Series
Im sure this viewpoint has nothing to do with the fact the call went against the team that you chose to root for.
would I be as pissed? Probably not...doesn't change the fact that the rule sucks, the press conference after embarrassed the game, and this dumb rule has now affected the championship series of the sport
It's a totally required rule. Baserunners have to avoid interfering with a batted ball, defenders have to avoid interfering with a baserunner.
Perhaps not lift his legs up?
so what was Middlebrooks supposed to do exactly?
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 5:42 pm
by @SkitchP
MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:it's a completely stupid rule (there being no judgement, it just is what it is), it belies every ounce of common sense, and that press conference with the umpires was an embarrassment to the entire game of baseball ("well, Middlebrooks just needs to get out of the way")
so yes, technically they called the rule correctly...and now everyone realizes how stupid that rule is and it will be changed this offseason, after it's very likely altered the course of a World Series
Im sure this viewpoint has nothing to do with the fact the call went against the team that you chose to root for.
would I be as pissed? Probably not...doesn't change the fact that the rule sucks, the press conference after embarrassed the game, and this dumb rule has now affected the championship series of the sport
It's a totally required rule. Baserunners have to avoid interfering with a batted ball, defenders have to avoid interfering with a baserunner.
so what was Middlebrooks supposed to do exactly?
Sometimes in sports a player gets caught up in a bad position.
The fault lies with one of the following
a.) The Rule
b.) The Umpires
c.) Allen Craig
d.) Willie Middlebrooks
e.) Salty
Middlebrooks did nothing wrong, but the throw put him in a position that he couldn't escape from. Bad luck happens, especially when trying to make a play to compensate for a mistake from a teammate.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 6:40 pm
by MattA75
@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:it's a completely stupid rule (there being no judgement, it just is what it is), it belies every ounce of common sense, and that press conference with the umpires was an embarrassment to the entire game of baseball ("well, Middlebrooks just needs to get out of the way")
so yes, technically they called the rule correctly...and now everyone realizes how stupid that rule is and it will be changed this offseason, after it's very likely altered the course of a World Series
Im sure this viewpoint has nothing to do with the fact the call went against the team that you chose to root for.
would I be as pissed? Probably not...doesn't change the fact that the rule sucks, the press conference after embarrassed the game, and this dumb rule has now affected the championship series of the sport
It's a totally required rule. Baserunners have to avoid interfering with a batted ball, defenders have to avoid interfering with a baserunner.
so what was Middlebrooks supposed to do exactly?
Sometimes in sports a player gets caught up in a bad position.
The fault lies with one of the following
a.) The Rule
b.) The Umpires
c.) Allen Craig
d.) Willie Middlebrooks
e.) Salty
Middlebrooks did nothing wrong, but the throw put him in a position that he couldn't escape from. Bad luck happens, especially when trying to make a play to compensate for a mistake from a teammate.
I blame the rule more than the umpires for making the call...I just think to say intent doesn't matter is completely idiotic
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 6:45 pm
by spike
Fuck You Jobu wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:it's a completely stupid rule (there being no judgement, it just is what it is), it belies every ounce of common sense, and that press conference with the umpires was an embarrassment to the entire game of baseball ("well, Middlebrooks just needs to get out of the way")
so yes, technically they called the rule correctly...and now everyone realizes how stupid that rule is and it will be changed this offseason, after it's very likely altered the course of a World Series
Im sure this viewpoint has nothing to do with the fact the call went against the team that you chose to root for.
would I be as pissed? Probably not...doesn't change the fact that the rule sucks, the press conference after embarrassed the game, and this dumb rule has now affected the championship series of the sport
It's a totally required rule. Baserunners have to avoid interfering with a batted ball, defenders have to avoid interfering with a baserunner.
Yep.
yet baserunners can interfere with defenders...
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 8:53 pm
by elliseamos
i don't think they've interpreted the rule correctly.
which would figure, since joyce wasn't even paying attention.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 9:12 pm
by Fuck You Jobu
spike wrote:Fuck You Jobu wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:it's a completely stupid rule (there being no judgement, it just is what it is), it belies every ounce of common sense, and that press conference with the umpires was an embarrassment to the entire game of baseball ("well, Middlebrooks just needs to get out of the way")
so yes, technically they called the rule correctly...and now everyone realizes how stupid that rule is and it will be changed this offseason, after it's very likely altered the course of a World Series
Im sure this viewpoint has nothing to do with the fact the call went against the team that you chose to root for.
would I be as pissed? Probably not...doesn't change the fact that the rule sucks, the press conference after embarrassed the game, and this dumb rule has now affected the championship series of the sport
It's a totally required rule. Baserunners have to avoid interfering with a batted ball, defenders have to avoid interfering with a baserunner.
Yep.
yet baserunners can interfere with defenders...
Such as?
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 9:20 pm
by Fuck You Jobu
elliseamos wrote:i don't think they've interpreted the rule correctly.
which would figure, since joyce wasn't even paying attention.
Extend the basepath out from the infield grass. He's in the basepath. Only part of your body needs to be in the basepath.
Btw, that's a cute screengrab of Joyce. Reminds me of taking a quote out of context. Watch the video... Joyce's head goes back and forth between the obstruction and teh outfield. He sees it.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-bas ... ddlebrooks
or look at this screenshot of him watching the obstruction.
Why haven't you talked about Middlebrooks trying to trip him? His feet were on the ground and then come up when the runner tries to go over him....
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 9:31 pm
by Norah
@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:it's a completely stupid rule (there being no judgement, it just is what it is), it belies every ounce of common sense, and that press conference with the umpires was an embarrassment to the entire game of baseball ("well, Middlebrooks just needs to get out of the way")
so yes, technically they called the rule correctly...and now everyone realizes how stupid that rule is and it will be changed this offseason, after it's very likely altered the course of a World Series
Im sure this viewpoint has nothing to do with the fact the call went against the team that you chose to root for.
If the teams were reversed and the call wasn't made everyone in Boston would be pissed off at the non-call.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 10:14 pm
by elliseamos
Fuck You Jobu wrote:elliseamos wrote:i don't think they've interpreted the rule correctly.
which would figure, since joyce wasn't even paying attention.
Extend the basepath out from the infield grass. He's in the basepath. Only part of your body needs to be in the basepath.
Btw, that's a cute screengrab of Joyce. Reminds me of taking a quote out of context. Watch the video... Joyce's head goes back and forth between the obstruction and teh outfield. He sees it.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-bas ... ddlebrooks
or look at this screenshot of him watching the obstruction.
Why haven't you talked about Middlebrooks trying to trip him? His feet were on the ground and then come up when the runner tries to go over him....
1) he's not in the path toward home, he's in the path toward 2nd, which means middlebrooks is allowed to obstruct craig in that direction b/c of the throw on the play toward that base.
2) joyce doesn't need to look to the outfield that's why there's an ump out there, not to mention the other umps on the field, joyce's at third to be the authority for that base... he should stick with watching what's going on there.
3) middlebrooks was moving his legs to help himself get up (a push-up is easier from your knees, no?) and then stops when he realizes/feels craig moving over him. i didn't comment b/c i didn't think it was an issue, which, if you do believe it's obstruction, shouldn't matter anyway b/c intent doesn't matter. right? whether you believe the play is obstruction or not, it doesn't matter what middlebrooks is doing. the fact that he's in the way is b/c of the play in the basepath for which he was making a play. if it was a pickle between home and third, or middlebrooks was trying to receive saltalamacchia's throw in the path toward home then it would make sense.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 10:15 pm
by elliseamos
cutuphalfdead wrote:@SkitchP wrote:MattA75 wrote:it's a completely stupid rule (there being no judgement, it just is what it is), it belies every ounce of common sense, and that press conference with the umpires was an embarrassment to the entire game of baseball ("well, Middlebrooks just needs to get out of the way")
so yes, technically they called the rule correctly...and now everyone realizes how stupid that rule is and it will be changed this offseason, after it's very likely altered the course of a World Series
Im sure this viewpoint has nothing to do with the fact the call went against the team that you chose to root for.
If the teams were reversed and the call wasn't made everyone in Boston would be pissed off at the non-call.
but surely a boston player wouldn't put themself in that position with one out and the winning run 90' away, right?
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 10:48 pm
by MadTIGERmaN
the base path, is a direct line from where a player starts his path towards the next base, often times a runner will actually take a lead off of 2nd base OUTSIDE the "base path" so he can get a better angle rounding 3rd.
futher, when rounding bases, youre almost never in the "base path" the only base that truly has a "path" is first... that ones enforced. The others, the path is a 3 foot window extending from where the runner is when he starts his move. So Craig is totally in HIS base path that he creates when he starts home. Its a pretty grey rule on that one.
the obstruction rule didnt give Craig home either, he still had to make the play close. If he would have only been half way home, its possible he would have been out. In all reality, with his condition and after getting tangled up, he should have just stayed at 3rd where hes sure to be safe. (Joe Torre brought up a play after the game in which Tejada had ran over a 3rd baseman... umpire called the interference, Tejada claps and jogs home THINKING he gets home, he was thrown out by a mile, and, well, he was out)
Harold Reynolds also brought up two other cases you see this called, pickles, when the runner will purposely try to run into a player who doesnt have the ball (Prince appeared to attempt that last week on that play at 3rd) or stolen bases at 2nd, when the ball sails into the outfield and the SS/2nd Basemen ends up on top of the runner... any contact at all and its called. Yes theres no intent, but it has to be called, and has to be a rule.
My only gripe at the rule in this case... is the process of fielding the ball is what put Middlebrooks there, and he really had no time/chance to get out of the way. His only option really? was to roll towards the mound?
but its still the right call. Its the right call, and a rule that needs to be in place, just sucks it ended such a great play...
and the double play at the plate to end the 9th WOULD have been one of the best plays ever.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 10:53 pm
by Peeps
hey look i can use paint to may my imaginary point
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 11:03 pm
by MadTIGERmaN
Peeps wrote:
hey look i can use paint to may my imaginary point
Is the base path the line between the bases?
No, the base path is the direct line between the base and the runner at the time when the fielder is trying to tag the runner. The base path is the direct line between the runner and the base to which she is either attempting to advance or retreat at the moment that a defensive player is attempting to tag her. Moreover, the base path may be a long way from the base line. For example, a batter who realizes that the third strike was dropped may start running from near the entrance to the bench.
first thing that came up on google (for womans softball) but im 99.9% sure the "base path" rule is the same for baseball
the base path (the dirt line between bases) is not, the runners "base line"
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 11:09 pm
by elliseamos
but the play prior to the runner starting toward the next base has to be considered, otherwise obstruction should be called every time there's a missed throw at a base... b/c the fielder will almost always be in-between the runner and the next base.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 11:31 pm
by elliseamos
welp, that's that.
here's how it is in the actual rule book... this example is used:
Rule 2.00 (Obstruction) Comment: If a fielder is about to receive a thrown ball and if the ball is in flight directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the ball he may be considered “in the act of fielding a ball.” It is entirely up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether a fielder is in the act of fielding a ball. After a fielder has made an attempt to field a ball and missed, he can no longer be in the “act of fielding” the ball. For example: an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner, he very likely has obstructed the runner.
i find it incredible that despite the fact that a fielder is on the ground due to the act of trying to make a play, he's then supposed to disappear so that the runner can advance. stupid baseball.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 11:33 pm
by numbers
There's also the whole thing about touching home. Craig never did, does a runner still have to touch the plate when being awarded home? I thought they did.
Re: MLB
Posted: Sun October 27, 2013 11:36 pm
by elliseamos
numbers wrote:There's also the whole thing about touching home. Craig never did, does a runner still have to touch the plate when being awarded home? I thought they did.
