Red Mosquito

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:

B wrote:I've watched season 1 twice, and I've seen nothing that makes me think she wouldn't feel guilt about him, but putting him aside, she should be racked with guilt over her daughter. An empire that just slaughtered an entire planet worth of people isn't going to think twice about trying to torture information out of her and killing her when she has nothing to give. Mon must know that, and for this to all happen without even a mention of her guilt, is weird to me.

What if, in the next arc, we see Perrin disavow Mothma to the Empire? Would that change any of this for you?

I don't see how his future actions would change her guilt now.

But look, I'll concede that she may not feel guilt over Perrin. She was obviously unhappy in the marriage and keeping secrets from him. I didn't feel it was to the point of carelessly abandoning him to the whims of an Empire bent on finding her, but I'm willing to surrender this point.

But is she not at all concerned that the Empire will arrest, interrogate, torture, imprison, and/or kill her daughter? She should have been refusing to go to Yavin without assurances that someone would keep her daughter safe.

Again, I think this was addressed in the first arc of this season. Mothma has tried again and again to find common ground with her daughter. She sees her future because it is her past. She reaches out. She tries so hard. And again and again her daughter rejects her.

Mothma is so tender and beautiful in the way she tries to save her daughter from a loveless and potentially dead life and, again, her daughter rejects her. She insults Mothma and figuratively slaps her down. In that moment, Mothma gives up. We see it. There's a literal moment in which is stops. She decides the relationship cannot be saved, that her daughter will make her own choices, but there is no saving their relationship. I'm sure Mothma is torn up about it. But we're also 2 years removed from those events by the time she gives her speech. That's a long time to deal with all of this and let go.

Has she talked to her daughter in those years? It's implied that she has not. Again, Gen O'Reilly is acting her ass off and there is so much happening in those fast moments. Her expression implies a lot. Maybe we don't get an explicit mention of her daughter but that didn't seem weird to me given all that came before and how fast everything is moving now.

They are estranged. Her daughter hates her and dismisses her and rejects her. Again, I'm sure Mothma thinks about that and it bugs her, as it would any mother, but I don't think that necessitates a scene or a even a line of dialogue about it. This show trusts it's audience. There's nothing in the show that says she DOESN'T think of her daughter. So just imagine that it's all wrapped up in what's she's doing. It adds to the stakes, honestly. And we can feel/know that even if it isn't spoken.

That's just my take. I'm sure others, like you, feel differently. But I think the show has done a masterful job setting up exactly why it isn't necessary in the moment. And, again, we have 3 more episodes left. Maybe something comes in those episodes.

There's no way you're a parent.

B wrote:There's no way you're a parent.

I'm proudly not.

But that's not at all the point.

Clearly, this is something you can't have a conversation about. I respect that. I'm sorry the show didn't give you the scene you wanted (yet).

There is simply no level of rejection my kids could shovel on me that would make me go into hiding while they are in danger.
It's not even clear that her kid hates her. She's just a petulant teenager.
I wouldn't go.
I wouldn't have given the speech.
It's not like her daughter will be arrested. She'll be taken and made to listen to that freaky dying alien babies tape. The Empire will break her trying to figure out if she knows where Mon Mothma is.

I would sacrifice the whole galaxy before endangering my children regardless of how much they hate me.
I would hate any parent who wouldn't.

B wrote:There is simply no level of rejection my kids could shovel on me that would make me go into hiding while they are in danger.
I wouldn't go.
I wouldn't have given the speech.
It's not like her daughter will be arrested. She'll be taken and made to listen to that freaky dying alien babies tape. The Empire will break her trying to figure out if she knows where Mon Mothma is.

I would sacrifice the whole galaxy before endangering my children regardless of how much they hate me.
I would hate any parent who wouldn't.

It's not even clear that her kid hates her. She's just a petulant teenager.

I understand.

Obviously, this is fiction. It's not about what you would do or what would really happen. It's about a story being told and I believe the necessary justifications have been properly and well established.

Again, the story isn't over. We don't know how it all plays out. There may be reconciliation coming -- or even confrontation coming. I don't know. But assuming there isn't, it's weird to me that you read those scenes as "it's not even that her kid hates her. She's just a petulant teenager." That's as weird to me as dime's insistence that Cyril didn't recognize Cass.

But we all interpret art differently. We just have very different reads on this, and that's cool. I'll leave it there. If someone else wants to try and engage you on this, I'll hand it over to them. Because we clearly aren't getting anywhere. Agree to disagree.

It's not what I would do. It's what anyone would do.
If your characters don't act believable ways, it sours the story.

I would admit to nitpicking, but her family has been a huge part of this story only to be disregarded in her moment of heroism.

I agree with B’s sentiment here but I also think we haven’t seen everything yet. I don’t think they’d write and show Mothma mourning Tay’s death and have her be uncaring of her daughter’s and husband’s fates. That said, probably would have been a good idea to more overtly depict her inner monologue on that front during the episode.

B wrote:I would admit to nitpicking, but her family has been a huge part of this story only to be disregarded in her moment of heroism.

Feels, to me, like a fundamental misread of what the show has been trying to say/show. *shrugs*

Ensign9 wrote:I agree with B’s sentiment here but I also think we haven’t seen everything yet. I don’t think they’d write and show Mothma mourning Tay’s death and have her be uncaring of her daughter’s and husband’s fates.

Exactly.

This conversation is pretty meaningless until the whole story has been told.

But, also, her "mourning" Tay is... different. That was about herself and her choices. Mothma is all about choices.

Also, we haven't seen any consequences for her family, yet. It would be weird to assume anything until we've either seen it or they've not shown it to us.

Mons daughter is probably Holdo or some bullshit

@SkitchP wrote:Mons daughter is probably Holdo or some bullshit

epilogue wrote:

B wrote:I would admit to nitpicking, but her family has been a huge part of this story only to be disregarded in her moment of heroism.

Feels, to me, like a fundamental misread of what the show has been trying to say/show. *shrugs*

We don't allow parents to abandon their kids just because they've been bitchy teens.

Ensign9 wrote: but I also think we haven’t seen everything yet.

True, but if I can't talk about things as they are, then I'm going to lock the thread b/c no one's allowed to think anything until the end of episode 12.

B wrote:

epilogue wrote:

B wrote:I would admit to nitpicking, but her family has been a huge part of this story only to be disregarded in her moment of heroism.

Feels, to me, like a fundamental misread of what the show has been trying to say/show. *shrugs*

We don't allow parents to abandon their kids just because they've been bitchy teens.

Ensign9 wrote: but I also think we haven’t seen everything yet.

True, but if I can't talk about things as they are, then I'm going to lock the thread b/c no one's allowed to think anything until the end of episode 12.

Again, you're obviously on some shit and there's no way to have this conversation. I'm sorry if I pissed you off.

I don’t think B was (originally) pissed off. Everyone calm down.

Ensign9 wrote:I don’t think B was pissed off. Everyone calm down.

I hope not. But he certainly wasn't calm enough to listen and react to things being said. He has an agenda and he's not in a place where he can hear other perspectives. I get it. I've been there, I'm there a lot!

I just wanted him to know that I wasn't trying to get at him. And the way he came at the conversation implied that he COULD be pissed off. I'm just trying to keep it civil and let him know that IF I pissed him off, that was unintentional. We're all just trying to watch and enjoy a Star War.

epilogue wrote:We're all just trying to watch and enjoy a Star War.

Except for Syril. He didn't notice a Star War, he just saw some random guy pointing a blaster at a window

@SkitchP wrote:

epilogue wrote:We're all just trying to watch and enjoy a Star War.

Except for Syril. He didn't notice a Star War, he just saw some random guy pointing a blaster at a window

Ensign9 wrote:I don’t think B was (originally) pissed off. Everyone calm down.

That's true. I'm not pissed off. I just noticed Mon is a shitty person.

B wrote:

Ensign9 wrote:I don’t think B was (originally) pissed off. Everyone calm down.

That's true. I'm not pissed off. I just noticed Mon is a shitty person.