Red Mosquito

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Anyway, it's not even close to pulling off "love" better than any other game. Season 1 of Telltale's The Walking Dead did a MUCH better job with a similar relationship. The Mass Effect trilogy is full of truly affecting, loving relationships with much more care and character development. I didn't think the relationship in TLOU was "done well" at all; I found it boring and trite.

I love the Mass Effect trilogy but lol, man. LOL. Summon her to your quarters so you can have sex. So deep. So developed. Haha. You manufactured your own relationship through a dialog tree.

CopperTom wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Anyway, it's not even close to pulling off "love" better than any other game. Season 1 of Telltale's The Walking Dead did a MUCH better job with a similar relationship. The Mass Effect trilogy is full of truly affecting, loving relationships with much more care and character development. I didn't think the relationship in TLOU was "done well" at all; I found it boring and trite.

I love the Mass Effect trilogy but lol, man. LOL. Summon her to your quarters so you can have sex. So deep. So developed. Haha. You manufactured your own relationship through a dialog tree.

CopperTom wrote:

Kaius wrote:I have a Wii and want to get a Mario game to introduce my daughter to the magnificence of the series. Which way should I go: New Super Mario Bros. or Super Mario Galaxy?

New SMB.

Yeah, definitely a better introductory game to the series.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

bada wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

CopperTom wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:I play with the gamepad but I don't have the pro controller. Tom, do you have a Wii U but not have the gamepad? Is that possible?

I have the gamepad but I don't care for it. Of the games I have it is nearly useless. Terrible battery too. I want to buy a controller. I was going to grab one with Hyrule Warriors but maybe I'll grab one and Mario sooner.

I keep the gamepad on the charging stand and have no issues with its battery life.

Yeah we keep ours in the stand no issue with batteries. I hate the gamepad so I got the Pro controller if you get one you won't regret it. My oldest loves the gamepad so it worked out for everyone. When we play Kart my wife gets stuck with the wii controller.

Wii controller and nunchuk is the only proper way to play Mario Kart

for sure

CopperTom wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Anyway, it's not even close to pulling off "love" better than any other game. Season 1 of Telltale's The Walking Dead did a MUCH better job with a similar relationship. The Mass Effect trilogy is full of truly affecting, loving relationships with much more care and character development. I didn't think the relationship in TLOU was "done well" at all; I found it boring and trite.

I love the Mass Effect trilogy but lol, man. LOL. Summon her to your quarters so you can have sex. So deep. So developed. Haha. You manufactured your own relationship through a dialog tree.

You're oversimplifying. And I'm not even strictly talking about the romance relationships (even though they can be much more complex than you're making them out to be).

For example, take the relationship between Shepard and Jack (assuming you don’t romance her and aren’t a dick to her). The arc she undergoes from first meeting her in ME2 to seeing her again in ME3 is beautiful and believable; she begins damaged, confused, and angry, eventually transforms that rage into strength, and finally she uses that strength to release her compassion and cares for a group of outcast adolescents. And this arc is largely facilitated by her relationship with Shepard, who helps her through a lot of pain and guides her toward acceptance and transcendence. This creates real love and affection between them (in a platonic way, of course). There’s depth to that relationship.

And again, that’s just one of many. There’s also the genuinely touching fraternal bond between Shepard and Garrus, or the friendship and respect forged through conflict between Shepard and Wrex, and on and on.

And why does a dialogue tree negate the depth or skill of writing of a relationship? I would argue it GREATLY enhances it, as it allows you to become engaged with the characters on a much more personal (and I would say profound) level.

I think this is all in harsh contrast to the characters and their relationship in TLOU, which never really goes beyond archetypal. What is so deep or special about their relationship? What makes it so much better than any other game?

You're all wrong.

Best in-game relationship:

Spoiler: show

ABNorman wrote:You're all wrong.

Best in-game relationship:

Spoiler: show

and you can take that all the way to the funkatron bank

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

CopperTom wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Anyway, it's not even close to pulling off "love" better than any other game. Season 1 of Telltale's The Walking Dead did a MUCH better job with a similar relationship. The Mass Effect trilogy is full of truly affecting, loving relationships with much more care and character development. I didn't think the relationship in TLOU was "done well" at all; I found it boring and trite.

I love the Mass Effect trilogy but lol, man. LOL. Summon her to your quarters so you can have sex. So deep. So developed. Haha. You manufactured your own relationship through a dialog tree.

You're oversimplifying. And I'm not even strictly talking about the romance relationships (even though they can be much more complex than you're making them out to be).

For example, take the relationship between Shepard and Jack (assuming you don’t romance her and aren’t a dick to her). The arc she undergoes from first meeting her in ME2 to seeing her again in ME3 is beautiful and believable; she begins damaged, confused, and angry, eventually transforms that rage into strength, and finally she uses that strength to release her compassion and cares for a group of outcast adolescents. And this arc is largely facilitated by her relationship with Shepard, who helps her through a lot of pain and guides her toward acceptance and transcendence. This creates real love and affection between them (in a platonic way, of course). There’s depth to that relationship.

And again, that’s just one of many. There’s also the genuinely touching fraternal bond between Shepard and Garrus, or the friendship and respect forged through conflict between Shepard and Wrex, and on and on.

And why does a dialogue tree negate the depth or skill of writing of a relationship? I would argue it GREATLY enhances it, as it allows you to become engaged with the characters on a much more personal (and I would say profound) level.

I think this is all in harsh contrast to the characters and their relationship in TLOU, which never really goes beyond archetypal. What is so deep or special about their relationship? What makes it so much better than any other game?

Again, I love Mass Effect, but I don't think that any relationship that Sheppard has is memorable or deep. I'm a completist and I probably advanced each arch as far as possible. I view Mass Effect more about team building than relationship building. I don't think Mass Effect is a good comparison here.

I view the tLoU as being special because their relationship was well introduced and developed. I don't view it as generic. Even before the end of the game, I cared about them. It was an atypical relationship which made the development all the more rewarding and surprising.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

bada wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:

CopperTom wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:I play with the gamepad but I don't have the pro controller. Tom, do you have a Wii U but not have the gamepad? Is that possible?

I have the gamepad but I don't care for it. Of the games I have it is nearly useless. Terrible battery too. I want to buy a controller. I was going to grab one with Hyrule Warriors but maybe I'll grab one and Mario sooner.

I keep the gamepad on the charging stand and have no issues with its battery life.

Yeah we keep ours in the stand no issue with batteries. I hate the gamepad so I got the Pro controller if you get one you won't regret it. My oldest loves the gamepad so it worked out for everyone. When we play Kart my wife gets stuck with the wii controller.

Wii controller and nunchuk is the only proper way to play Mario Kart

for sure

Kids.

CopperTom wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

CopperTom wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:Anyway, it's not even close to pulling off "love" better than any other game. Season 1 of Telltale's The Walking Dead did a MUCH better job with a similar relationship. The Mass Effect trilogy is full of truly affecting, loving relationships with much more care and character development. I didn't think the relationship in TLOU was "done well" at all; I found it boring and trite.

I love the Mass Effect trilogy but lol, man. LOL. Summon her to your quarters so you can have sex. So deep. So developed. Haha. You manufactured your own relationship through a dialog tree.

You're oversimplifying. And I'm not even strictly talking about the romance relationships (even though they can be much more complex than you're making them out to be).

For example, take the relationship between Shepard and Jack (assuming you don’t romance her and aren’t a dick to her). The arc she undergoes from first meeting her in ME2 to seeing her again in ME3 is beautiful and believable; she begins damaged, confused, and angry, eventually transforms that rage into strength, and finally she uses that strength to release her compassion and cares for a group of outcast adolescents. And this arc is largely facilitated by her relationship with Shepard, who helps her through a lot of pain and guides her toward acceptance and transcendence. This creates real love and affection between them (in a platonic way, of course). There’s depth to that relationship.

And again, that’s just one of many. There’s also the genuinely touching fraternal bond between Shepard and Garrus, or the friendship and respect forged through conflict between Shepard and Wrex, and on and on.

And why does a dialogue tree negate the depth or skill of writing of a relationship? I would argue it GREATLY enhances it, as it allows you to become engaged with the characters on a much more personal (and I would say profound) level.

I think this is all in harsh contrast to the characters and their relationship in TLOU, which never really goes beyond archetypal. What is so deep or special about their relationship? What makes it so much better than any other game?

Again, I love Mass Effect, but I don't think that any relationship that Sheppard has is memorable or deep. I'm a completist and I probably advanced each arch as far as possible. I view Mass Effect more about team building than relationship building. I don't think Mass Effect is a good comparison here.

I view the tLoU as being special because their relationship was well introduced and developed. I don't view it as generic. Even before the end of the game, I cared about them. It was an atypical relationship which made the development all the more rewarding and surprising.

Okay, I get that you feel that way, but I'm asking why. You're stating generalizations.

Why aren't the relationships memorable or deep in ME? Do you disagree that there's depth in the relationships I cited? If so, why (I think they're quite complex and resonant)? Why is the team-building more significant?

How was the relationship in TLOU well-developed? How was it at all atypical (Again, what makes it special or sets it apart from other games/movies?)? You say you cared about them, but what made you care about them? Just that they're taking on a father-daughter relationship?

I just don't see how anything is deep or memorable or special in that relationship. Again, the characters and their relationship feel very shallow and archetypal to me. Guy loses child, becomes hardened. Enter spunky young girl. Gradually, after the obligatory reticence, guy's hard exterior weakens and he begins to care about her in a paternal manner. Is there some significant specificity to them and their relationship that goes beyond that simple formula? If so, what is it?

man, i just shoot stuff when i play video games and punch my buttons as fast as i can to skip through the stories.

red calzolaio wrote:man, i just shoot stuff when i play video games and punch my buttons as fast as i can to skip through the stories.

i dont. And I kinda hate that I'm solidly in the minority on this point.

BurtReynolds wrote:

red calzolaio wrote:man, i just shoot stuff when i play video games and punch my buttons as fast as i can to skip through the stories.

i dont. And I kinda hate that I'm solidly in the minority on this point.

Yeah, sometimes I'm the opposite - If I fail more than once or twice, I have no problems with throwing on a cheat to get through a difficult bit and get on with the story.

BurtReynolds wrote:

red calzolaio wrote:man, i just shoot stuff when i play video games and punch my buttons as fast as i can to skip through the stories.

i dont. And I kinda hate that I'm solidly in the minority on this point.

The feeling's mutual. That kind of casual gaming hasn't been interesting to me in a long time. I think everything changed after I played Mass Effect, which really spoiled me. I think videogames have the potential to be the ultimate modern artform, yet developers keep settling for quotidian mediocrity. That's why stuff like The Last of Us irritates me so much. People praise it for being some big leap for gaming as an artform, and I'm like, "No! It's a regression! The medium is already past this stuff and could become so much more!"

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

red calzolaio wrote:man, i just shoot stuff when i play video games and punch my buttons as fast as i can to skip through the stories.

i dont. And I kinda hate that I'm solidly in the minority on this point.

The feeling's mutual. That kind of casual gaming hasn't been interesting to me in a long time. I think everything changed after I played Mass Effect, which really spoiled me. I think videogames have the potential to be the ultimate modern artform, yet developers keep settling for quotidian mediocrity. That's why stuff like The Last of Us irritates me so much. People praise it for being some big leap for gaming as an artform, and I'm like, "No! It's a regression! The medium is already past this stuff and could become so much more!"

oddly enough, i enjoyed Mass Effect. But i could not tell you anything about what or why i was doing something, or anything.

red calzolaio wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

red calzolaio wrote:man, i just shoot stuff when i play video games and punch my buttons as fast as i can to skip through the stories.

i dont. And I kinda hate that I'm solidly in the minority on this point.

The feeling's mutual. That kind of casual gaming hasn't been interesting to me in a long time. I think everything changed after I played Mass Effect, which really spoiled me. I think videogames have the potential to be the ultimate modern artform, yet developers keep settling for quotidian mediocrity. That's why stuff like The Last of Us irritates me so much. People praise it for being some big leap for gaming as an artform, and I'm like, "No! It's a regression! The medium is already past this stuff and could become so much more!"

oddly enough, i enjoyed Mass Effect. But i could not tell you anything about what or why i was doing something, or anything.

Haha, that's understandable, I suppose. Its narrative/mythology/characters aren't going to connect with everybody. But those games fucking consumed my life. Hundreds of hours. I’ve played them all many times. Those characters and that universe feel real to me. Living, breathing. That game really had a profound effect on me; it goes on the very short list of art that has changed the way I look at myself and the world.

Full disclosure: I love ME1 and ME2 more than any movie or album.

Mass Effect is where Bioware finally lost me. It's OK, just not earth-shattering.

KOTOR is still one of my top 5 games, though.

ABNorman wrote:Mass Effect is where Bioware finally lost me. It's OK, just not earth-shattering.

KOTOR is still one of my top 5 games, though.

Ha, I feel the opposite of everything you just said.

I tried playing KOTOR after ME and couldn't even play it for more than 10 minutes. I can't stand that style of gameplay/RPG.

ABNorman wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

red calzolaio wrote:man, i just shoot stuff when i play video games and punch my buttons as fast as i can to skip through the stories.

i dont. And I kinda hate that I'm solidly in the minority on this point.

Yeah, sometimes I'm the opposite - If I fail more than once or twice, I have no problems with throwing on a cheat to get through a difficult bit and get on with the story.

I won't usually resort to a cheat unless i'm REALLY stuck, but I do keep a game wiki handy to help me out of a tough spot. My gaming time is limited so I don't want to waste hours wandering around a map looking for something/someone just to discover that it's not available yet, or worse, that i'd closed off that game pathway by some random act or choice i'd made earlier (see: Fallout/Skyrim/ME/etc). Game wikis are great for peeking ahead to make sure you develop your character in the way that yields the most gameplay. Sure it's kinda cheating but I don't have time to play through games multiple times to explore every possible character or story arc.

you guys hear about EA Access for Xbox One?

intriguing.