Red Mosquito

twoheadedboy wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:

@SkitchP wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:None of Pearl Jam's moneygrabbing affects how much I like this band. They're artists, they get paid to create and perform their art, that's all.

The problem is, their moneygrabbing in a lot of cases is in direct contradiction to the content of their art.

There's no crossover though, for me. Moneygrabbing is over there, art is over here. Terrible people with ridiculous beliefs/principles/practices make great art all the time. And I'm not sure anything can be in direct contradiction to sounds arranged in a certain way so that it sounds good to my ears/brain/mind.

This is about photographers, but can apply to any artist: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/7.htm

Wow, that is amazingly, self righteously, stupid even by rm standards.

The decisions related to the increased emphasis on money-making that open the band to criticism and mockery are the ones that represent a shift in the way they see their fans. The fan base is something that's been nurtured, cultivated, held up as something the band is proud of. But now there's something else going on...the fan base is opportunity, it's marketing department fantasy camp. It's ready to be harvested. Like, "we've been patient with you all these years, at our expense, and now it's our turn."

Welcome to the Kiss Army. Bring your wallet

Probably because I'm an accountant but I have a hard time bagging anyone for trying to work at maximising their revenue from what they do.

Pearl Jam certainly have said some dumb things in the past, but so have I. It's amazing the change in perspective age, experience and family provide.

I wonder if many of you posting how much current day PJ decions suck hold yourselves to the same lofty ethical and moral standards.

I don't know, I don't get the impression anyone here is genuinely outraged, even moderately, by this kind of thing.

I presume most people are making these posts in jest - largely because, in many respects, Pearl Jam have become this kind of wryly amusing caricature of what they once were. The music may not be much chop anymore but, hey, at least we can get a chuckle out of their wacky antics from time to time, that sort of thing.

McParadigm wrote:The decisions related to the increased emphasis on money-making that open the band to criticism and mockery are the ones that represent a shift in the way they see their fans. The fan base is something that's been nurtured, cultivated, held up as something the band is proud of. But now there's something else going on...the fan base is opportunity, it's marketing department fantasy camp. It's ready to be harvested. Like, "we've been patient with you all these years, at our expense, and now it's our turn."

Welcome to the Kiss Army. Bring your wallet

There is something to that, but in a less hostile way. They've acknowledged that an element of their older, now wealthier fan ase has turned into collectors, and so they release niche band products to keep those people happy. This harms absoltuley no one except for puritans who get upset by someone else's good time.

Just like the live set caters to their belief that the fans going want the grab bag setlist.

This is pretty separate from the desire to be more relevant or whatever that has dictated a change in the type of music that they right (and to be clear I don't think it is controlling what they are writing-just that it is one of probably many influences)

Birds in Hell wrote:I don't know, I don't get the impression anyone here is genuinely outraged, even moderately, by this kind of thing.

I presume most people are making these posts in jest - largely because, in many respects, Pearl Jam have become this kind of wryly amusing caricature of what they once were. The music may not be much chop anymore but, hey, at least we can get a chuckle out of their wacky antics from time to time, that sort of thing.

Yeah, I'm 100% convinced that MANY people are totally serious. Maybe not you or lament or other regulars who participate in every thread. But I suspect pry to or huell for yesterday meant every word

I'm not outraged at this point, but I am honestly disappointed and continually surprised.

These guys were part of a band I grew up with, idolized, supported and rooted for. It wasn't just about the music; it was also about the way they conducted themselves with the whole anti-rock star/band of the fans mythology. I have no problem with a musician making money on his craft, nor should anyone. The issue with Pearl Jam is they have gone from utilizing a platform to spread a message/ideology to abandoning those principles (at least on a professional level) and becoming a large chunk of what there message spoke against. It's well beyond hypocrisy or "people change" cop-out.

What they decided to do with the liberation from Epic has just blown my mind. It is nothing how I imagined it.

Thejambi wrote:I'm not outraged at this point, but I am honestly disappointed and continually surprised.

These guys were part of a band I grew up with, idolized, supported and rooted for. It wasn't just about the music; it was also about the way they conducted themselves with the whole anti-rock star/band of the fans mythology. I have no problem with a musician making money on his craft, nor should anyone. The issue with Pearl Jam is they have gone from utilizing a platform to spread a message/ideology to abandoning those principles (at least on a professional level) and becoming a large chunk of what there message spoke against. It's well beyond hypocrisy or "people change" cop-out.

What they decided to do with the liberation from Epic has just blown my mind. It is nothing how I imagined it.

Fair enough. I just don't have that much invested in them from a point of view of anything but their music to be honest - I'm not equipped to argue the pramg on an emotional perspective.

From a commercial perspective so long as they keep touring then I have no problems at all what the 10C do. In the end they satisfy a demand that obviously exists, apparently even for dog collars. I can however certainly appreciate the humour in that, because in the main it's a demand I can't fathom.

Oh yeah, and "people change" isn't a cop out - people really do change, I looked it up on the internet.

Varis wrote:Oh yeah, and "people change" isn't a cop out - people really do change, I looked it up on the internet.

In reference to Pearl Jam, it is a weak defense.

I just think it's hilarious. They're like a really straight-faced, minimal-drag Monty Python sketch at this point, and the audience participation involved in this one is staggering.

McParadigm wrote:I just think it's hilarious. They're like a really straight-faced, minimal-drag Monty Python sketch at this point, and the audience participation involved in this one is staggering.

Pretty much this.

There's that audience participation again.

Thejambi wrote:I'm not outraged at this point, but I am honestly disappointed and continually surprised.

These guys were part of a band I grew up with, idolized, supported and rooted for. It wasn't just about the music; it was also about the way they conducted themselves with the whole anti-rock star/band of the fans mythology. I have no problem with a musician making money on his craft, nor should anyone. The issue with Pearl Jam is they have gone from utilizing a platform to spread a message/ideology to abandoning those principles (at least on a professional level) and becoming a large chunk of what there message spoke against. It's well beyond hypocrisy or "people change" cop-out.

What they decided to do with the liberation from Epic has just blown my mind. It is nothing how I imagined it.

where is the hypocrisy? What 'principle' have they abandoned?


I certainly agree they could have done more cutting edge stuff once they were off a major label. There's certainly been nothing groundbreaking, and that's kind of disappointing.

I just like watching Stip drive himself crazy defending their every move.

the small part of me that is a pedantic asshole (and it lurks in every teacher) just can't stand to see people be incorrect about stuff

My favorite is when you passive-aggressively defend them, you know, by just asking questions. Like the bros in the feminism thread. Just asking questions, man. Not taking a stance. Just wondering.

oh I don't think there's anything passive about what I'm doing here.

I'll point it out next time it happens, because it really does make me giddy