Red Mosquito

after many listens (and with the acknowledgment i am conflating mixing, engineering, production) there are really just two issues i have

1. wont tell feels like it comes out of nowhere and has started 5 seconds in. it is jarring and not in a good way. i may retrack someday to swap it with upper hand. in my head that works better

2. the chorus, second half of setting sun feels like it is from a separate song. lthe dynamic shift is not seemless

if it was to really be a Yield, it would need to have a "No Way" *and* a "Push Me Pull Me"

stip wrote:in general the atmos mix (of which i am experiencing an imperfect spatial audio translation) the drums and eddie are forward at the expense of the guitars, which, for my preferences, is a lesser trade off - though together they give a fuller composite picture of the album. it’s annoying that this is what it takes.

Interesting. My take on the vinyl (galaxy red 10C variant) is that it’s very guitar forward, at the expense of everything else, which is a tradeoff I’m surprisingly happy to make.

Ms Harmless wrote:I think for me, what's keeping this as a PRAMG album and not an all-timer is:

1. pop production: unlike some here I don't consider it "bad", it's a choice, but it also doesn't really reflect the band pre-MG

2. not enough darkness / weirdness: yes it's there in the lyrics, but musically, React / Respond is the only real nod to the unfriendly; the rest is a pretty straight up (though excellent) classic rock album

I had a 3 but I've forgotten it

so I love this album, I consider it a late career miracle alongside Gigaton, but I couldn't rank it like 4 or 5 in the catalogue like some are doing

This is a pretty good summation.

It’s a really good late career Pearl Jam album that a lifelong fan doesn’t have to be embarrassed about (cough, cough Lightning Bolt), but it’s not in the stratosphere that their more formidable, albeit less commercially accessible albums were.

so far this is ahead of at least two of the 90s records for me

mattyv1908 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I think for me, what's keeping this as a PRAMG album and not an all-timer is:

1. pop production: unlike some here I don't consider it "bad", it's a choice, but it also doesn't really reflect the band pre-MG

2. not enough darkness / weirdness: yes it's there in the lyrics, but musically, React / Respond is the only real nod to the unfriendly; the rest is a pretty straight up (though excellent) classic rock album

I had a 3 but I've forgotten it

so I love this album, I consider it a late career miracle alongside Gigaton, but I couldn't rank it like 4 or 5 in the catalogue like some are doing

This is a pretty good summation.

It’s a really good late career Pearl Jam album that a lifelong fan doesn’t have to be embarrassed about (cough, cough Lightning Bolt), but it’s not in the stratosphere that their more formidable, albeit less commercially accessible albums were.

exactly

after writing that R/R was the only "dark" and unfriendly track, I thought about how you could call Dark Matter that, or even Running, but honestly? I think the production is working a little harder to keep those slightly light

stip wrote:i finally got an apple music subscription. listening to DM on apple music - the atmos mix using air pods with spatial audio active. can hear some things more clearly, but other things just drop out. one of the guitars is almost inaudible at the start of dark matter

Yes, that’s what I noticed too. The mid is lower in general, but you hear the bass way more clearly and there is more ‘room’ sound and echo in the drums.

However I also noticed a difference between Dolby atmos, which is the default when I listen to Apple Music on my phone, and the regular Apple Music version when i listen to it on my laptop. I don’t know why they’re different, but Apple Music on my laptop is not playing the atmos version. And I like the non atmos apple version best. The inaudible parts you mentioned are louder while also retaining the louder bass and drums. On the flip side , it is the loudest version of all and may be too much on higher volumes.

stip wrote:so far this is ahead of at least two of the 90s records for me

I will never understand the lack of reverence you hold for No Code and Yield, but that’s ok.

Love hearing everyone having different takes on the atmos mix.

It's a shame, in a way, that we need to combine various aspects of different mixes to give this way an ideal presentation, and, yes, I do think that may hurt the album in the long run, but, personal quibbles with the production of this album aside, I'm pretty confident Trag will pull through here and give us a great listening experience which honors the best aspects of all of these mixes.

Ms Harmless wrote:

mattyv1908 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I think for me, what's keeping this as a PRAMG album and not an all-timer is:

1. pop production: unlike some here I don't consider it "bad", it's a choice, but it also doesn't really reflect the band pre-MG

2. not enough darkness / weirdness: yes it's there in the lyrics, but musically, React / Respond is the only real nod to the unfriendly; the rest is a pretty straight up (though excellent) classic rock album

I had a 3 but I've forgotten it

so I love this album, I consider it a late career miracle alongside Gigaton, but I couldn't rank it like 4 or 5 in the catalogue like some are doing

This is a pretty good summation.

It’s a really good late career Pearl Jam album that a lifelong fan doesn’t have to be embarrassed about (cough, cough Lightning Bolt), but it’s not in the stratosphere that their more formidable, albeit less commercially accessible albums were.

exactly

after writing that R/R was the only "dark" and unfriendly track, I thought about how you could call Dark Matter that, or even Running, but honestly? I think the production is working a little harder to keep those slightly light

The irony of the pop production for me is that, while it is not my preferred sound for the band or rock music in general, and while it has its detriments, it serves what this album is going for and gives it the lovely lightness that is needed to instill the hopeful side of the album’s message.

I’m always down for more weirdness in my PJ music, but the hook-forward and straight forward soaring rock songs work for what this album is going for.

I’ll never understand why Mike McCready says this album is the heaviest in a while. I don’t even know what that means. Certainly not musically. Even the lyrical content that is heavy and sad is countered with some hopefulness and love. I swear he has said that about every single one of the past 5 albums.

heaviness: guitar solos everywhere?

stip wrote:heaviness: guitar solos everywhere?

I mean, it is heavy in terms of Mike guitar!

Fattie_Vedder wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

mattyv1908 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I think for me, what's keeping this as a PRAMG album and not an all-timer is:

1. pop production: unlike some here I don't consider it "bad", it's a choice, but it also doesn't really reflect the band pre-MG

2. not enough darkness / weirdness: yes it's there in the lyrics, but musically, React / Respond is the only real nod to the unfriendly; the rest is a pretty straight up (though excellent) classic rock album

I had a 3 but I've forgotten it

so I love this album, I consider it a late career miracle alongside Gigaton, but I couldn't rank it like 4 or 5 in the catalogue like some are doing

This is a pretty good summation.

It’s a really good late career Pearl Jam album that a lifelong fan doesn’t have to be embarrassed about (cough, cough Lightning Bolt), but it’s not in the stratosphere that their more formidable, albeit less commercially accessible albums were.

exactly

after writing that R/R was the only "dark" and unfriendly track, I thought about how you could call Dark Matter that, or even Running, but honestly? I think the production is working a little harder to keep those slightly light

The irony of the pop production for me is that, while it is not my preferred sound for the band or rock music in general, and while it has its detriments, it serves what this album is going for and gives it the lovely lightness that is needed to instill the hopeful side of the album’s message.

I’m always down for more weirdness in my PJ music, but the hook-forward and straight forward soaring rock songs work for what this album is going for.

It succeeds at what it’s trying to do, but if what it’s trying to do is not what you want from the band, then you’ll probably rate it slightly lower than someone who is fully satisfied with what it’s trying to do. That’s all.

Fattie_Vedder wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

mattyv1908 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I think for me, what's keeping this as a PRAMG album and not an all-timer is:

1. pop production: unlike some here I don't consider it "bad", it's a choice, but it also doesn't really reflect the band pre-MG

2. not enough darkness / weirdness: yes it's there in the lyrics, but musically, React / Respond is the only real nod to the unfriendly; the rest is a pretty straight up (though excellent) classic rock album

I had a 3 but I've forgotten it

so I love this album, I consider it a late career miracle alongside Gigaton, but I couldn't rank it like 4 or 5 in the catalogue like some are doing

This is a pretty good summation.

It’s a really good late career Pearl Jam album that a lifelong fan doesn’t have to be embarrassed about (cough, cough Lightning Bolt), but it’s not in the stratosphere that their more formidable, albeit less commercially accessible albums were.

exactly

after writing that R/R was the only "dark" and unfriendly track, I thought about how you could call Dark Matter that, or even Running, but honestly? I think the production is working a little harder to keep those slightly light

The irony of the pop production for me is that, while it is not my preferred sound for the band or rock music in general, and while it has its detriments, it serves what this album is going for and gives it the lovely lightness that is needed to instill the hopeful side of the album’s message.

I’m always down for more weirdness in my PJ music, but the hook-forward and straight forward soaring rock songs work for what this album is going for.

I’ll never understand why Mike McCready says this album is the heaviest in a while. I don’t even know what that means. Certainly not musically. Even the lyrical content that is heavy and sad is countered with some hopefulness and love. I swear he has said that about every single one of the past 5 albums.

LOL yeah, I sort of get it; there's more bitterness in the lyrics, more hardness in the drumming (if not the drums), and more crunchy attack on (some of) the guitars than there has been in a while, but yet, somehow Riot Act feels heavier, more oppressive; I'd love one more album like that before they call it quits

It's the most guitar/drums forward album in a long time, solos abound, and, while there's hope and optimism present in the lyrics, the subject matter largely deals with loss, reckoning with the fullness of time, and the human need for connection. Heavy enough for anyone, imo.

tragabigzanda wrote:

oneway23 wrote:Love hearing everyone having different takes on the atmos mix.

It's a shame, in a way, that we need to combine various aspects of different mixes to give this way an ideal presentation, and, yes, I do think that may hurt the album in the long run, but, personal quibbles with the production of this album aside, I'm pretty confident Trag will pull through here and give us a great listening experience which honors the best aspects of all of these mixes.

Alright guys, I'm soliciting some feedback here. I'm using two different mastering algorithms. Any thoughts on which we prefer? Both are converted to low bitrate MP3s for ease of hosting; I promise the WAVs sound much better.

Algorithm #1 is 10db of dynamic range:

https://voca.ro/1gajEyRFaNwP

Algorithm #2 defaulted to 7db of dynamic range based on a Riot Act reference track. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T LET THE LOUDER VOLUME TRICK YOU INTO THINKING IT SOUNDS BETTER. I can dial back back the limiting on this so it has the same EQ and imaging profile, but with a broader dynamic range.

https://voca.ro/1azrOsgQnb8F

I think I like the second one (7db) better. To my untrained ear, it sounds less ‘dampened’ than the first and the guitars shine a tad more, even though oddly it is the Riot Act referenced one. But I admit I may be a poor judge of this.

I think the confusion about Mike's peavey comments are probably due to the final mix sequence and actual songs from the sessions being chosen. I bet there is heavy song that were left off.

Trag, I love the drums on 2 but I miss the intensity of the guitars on both, they feel distant; can you get intensity without adding volume?