Red Mosquito

I'm not saying this in a facetious way, I'm asking a genuinely open-hearted question here: Isn't all of this "concept failure" talk a bit like saying No Code's "concept" failed because "Hail, Hail", "Habit", & "Lukin" were on the record?

oneway23 wrote:I'm not saying this in a facetious way, I'm asking a genuinely open-hearted question here: Isn't all of this "concept failure" talk a bit like saying No Code's "concept" failed because "Hail, Hail", "Habit", & "Lukin" were on the record?

no because No Code's concept was there was no concept. it was a ramshackle collection of disparate songs that explored new avenues and sounds throughout. jack had no small part to do with that.

evenslow wrote:

oneway23 wrote:I'm not saying this in a facetious way, I'm asking a genuinely open-hearted question here: Isn't all of this "concept failure" talk a bit like saying No Code's "concept" failed because "Hail, Hail", "Habit", & "Lukin" were on the record?

no because No Code's concept was there was no concept. it was a ramshackle collection of disparate songs that explored new avenues and sounds throughout. jack had no small part to do with that.

Adore Jack. Did before Pearl Jam, do now. Just saw him play a couple of years ago and he's still magical.

While I'd like to think that there is ideally a particular focus going into each album in terms of things they'd care to explore, and ways that they might expand their collective palate a bit, I wouldn't say that they've ever necessarily intended for any of their records to be a "concept album", as such.

Backspacer had a particular emphasis on 80's-ISH/Cars-ISH bright, tight, concise pop-punk with a spit-shine sheen. There are a few numbers on it in this vein that served to season the influence stew a bit, sure, but, I wouldn't say that they failed, in any sense, because they didn't follow this entire concept throughout the entire album. I'm not sure that was ever the stated artistic intent.

Whether or not you enjoyed that particular collection of songs, for whatever number of entirely valid reasons, feels like a different discussion altogether.

oneway23 wrote:

evenslow wrote:

oneway23 wrote:I'm not saying this in a facetious way, I'm asking a genuinely open-hearted question here: Isn't all of this "concept failure" talk a bit like saying No Code's "concept" failed because "Hail, Hail", "Habit", & "Lukin" were on the record?

no because No Code's concept was there was no concept. it was a ramshackle collection of disparate songs that explored new avenues and sounds throughout. jack had no small part to do with that.

Adore Jack. Did before Pearl Jam, do now. Just saw him play a couple of years ago and he's still magical.

While I'd like to think that there is ideally a particular focus going into each album in terms of things they'd care to explore, and ways that they might expand their collective palate a bit, I wouldn't say that they've ever necessarily intended for any of their records to be a "concept album", as such.

Backspacer had a particular emphasis on 80's-ISH/Cars-ISH bright, tight, concise pop-punk with a spit-shine sheen. There are a few numbers on it that served to season the influence stew a bit, sure, but, I wouldn't say that they failed, in any sense because they didn't follow this entire concept throughout the entire album. I'm not sure that was ever the stated artistic intent.

Whether or not you enjoyed that particular collection of songs, for whatever number of entirely valid reasons, feels like a different discussion altogether.

re: backspacer, it's probably more of a "i wish they woulda" type thing. but, then again, they talked about that record being a commitment to concise, first-idea-best-idea type songs after the drawn out "jammy" recording process of ST. the overarching sound came second, when I wish they woulda made that priority #1.

relatedly, ed has spoken of ST being a concept album, at least lyrically, in re: to the Iraq War. pretty sure he said they didn't go all the way with that idea by the very end. would've been cool!

evenslow wrote:re: backspacer, it's probably more of a "i wish they woulda" type thing. but, then again, they talked about that record being a commitment to concise, first-idea-best-idea type songs after the drawn out "jammy" recording process of ST. the overarching sound came second, when I wish they woulda made that priority #1.

I empathize with you on that. I recall those interviews as well, and, I'd just say that were they the type of band with an auteur-type, primary songwriter, that scenario would be much more likely. They are blessed with a number of gifted songwriters, with influences (both collective and disparate) far too broad to ever make that much of a singular, concise statement. Then again, that's precisely what makes them such a fascinating band.

I love each song in its own way, but, sure, there are some I care for more than others, at various times in my life.

oneway23 wrote:I recall those interviews as well, and, I'd just say that were they the type of band with an auteur-type, primary songwriter, that scenario would be much more likely. They are blessed with a number of gifted songwriters, with influences (both collective and disparate) far too broad to ever make that much of a singular, concise statement. Then again, that's precisely what makes them such a fascinating band.

This is a great point. The multiple songwriters thing was a huge advantage on albums like Yield when they had peak BOB to tie it all together. Post ST the songwriting has suffered from a lack of cohesion and not enough total band interaction. Instead they seem to add flavoring to an almost finished demo.

Luckily, DOTC is a cool example of each band member contributing something meaningful to the final product.

Let's hope we don't get what are essentially Ed solo songs like Just Breathe, The End, Sleeping, Future days.

LetMeSleep wrote:Let's hope we don't get what are essentially Ed solo songs like Just Breathe, The End, Sleeping, Future days.

Yes we’ve had enough of this model (even if some of the songs are still good.)

evenslow wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:Let's hope we don't get what are essentially Ed solo songs like Just Breathe, The End, Sleeping, Future days.

Yes we’ve had enough of this model (even if some of the songs are still good.)

As much as i love Sleeping By Myself on Ed's solo album i still cannot believe they put that on a freaking Pearl Jam album.

Thurman Murman wrote:

evenslow wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:Let's hope we don't get what are essentially Ed solo songs like Just Breathe, The End, Sleeping, Future days.

Yes we’ve had enough of this model (even if some of the songs are still good.)

As much as i love Sleeping By Myself on Ed's solo album i still cannot believe they put that on a freaking Pearl Jam album.

I actually really like both versions and I’m pissed they ever put it on LB.

Should have just been a pleasant surprise live cover.

evenslow wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:Let's hope we don't get what are essentially Ed solo songs like Just Breathe, The End, Sleeping, Future days.

Yes we’ve had enough of this model (even if some of the songs are still good.)

I mean, I think River Cross will be that; but from what we've heard (the Verison clip and live version), it sounds more Into the Wild than Backspacer, and I'm happy with that

evenslow wrote: Luckily, DOTC is a cool example of each band member contributing something meaningful to the final product.

Yep. That's what I've always hoped to see more of. For these past few (much as I will fight for 'em), there has been a lot of, "I wrote this polished demo at home for y'all to add a little bit of spice to" and not enough "Let's write Daughter together in the back of the tour bus" for my personal preference.

It was fine for Yield, at the time, since they were re-establishing a proper foundation for being in a healthy band. It was more important for everyone to be represented & heard. That's great!

Then again, given their age & living situations, it's understandable that this is how things are now, I suppose. Far from my ideal, surely, though, let's hope for more collaboration on this one.

oneway23 wrote:

evenslow wrote: Luckily, DOTC is a cool example of each band member contributing something meaningful to the final product.

Yep. That's what I've always hoped to see more of. For these past few (much as I will fight for 'em), there has been a lot of, "I wrote this polished demo at home for y'all to add a little bit of spice to" and not enough "Let's write Daughter together in the back of the tour bus" for my personal preference.

It was fine for Yield, at the time, since they were re-establishing a proper foundation for being in a healthy band. It was more important for everyone to be represented & heard. That's great!

Then again, given their age & living situations, it's understandable that this is how things are now, I suppose. Far from my ideal, surely, though, let's hope for more collaboration on this one.

evenslow wrote:

Christ, I really need to focus on work here....

You know what's interesting? If you've ever listened to any Soundgarden demos, they seem to have worked almost exclusively alone. I know there are a lot of good songs with two writers in their catalog, but, many are compositions with a sole writer.

The Superunknown demos are really incredible. Cornell has literally every backing vocal, harmony, key change....Even the drums, as they are on drum machine, are basically there. Makes sense, as he was a former drummer. The talent level there, with all of them, really is just astounding. Each member has a fully formed song in demo form, not all that different from the finished product.

Again, quite envious there with another example of a band with multiple songwriters, all w/ a distinct voice and a strong personality

I'm really glad that "Who Ever Said" begins with those rising ambient sounds, it's not another "Matt plays a few bars by himself" deal

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm really glad that "Who Ever Said" begins with those rising ambient sounds, it's not another "Matt plays a few bars by himself" deal

where is this WES snippet?

EJ wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I'm really glad that "Who Ever Said" begins with those rising ambient sounds, it's not another "Matt plays a few bars by himself" deal

where is this WES snippet?

Couldnt find the other video but someone posted a video of them playing the record at the beginning...this noise was playing and near the end of the clip you heard MC and the band kick in to something meaty

interesting, thanks Strat

EJ wrote:interesting, thanks Strat

You bet. needless to say, im pretty excited about this track.

Give me the album already!