Red Mosquito

harmless wrote:

darth_vedder wrote:

harmless wrote:The difficulty with this song is about much more than this song. For some, it's part of a long line of disappointing aspects of the new Pearl Jam who are a different band than the one they signed up for. I can't take that away from anyone, and I feel it to some extent myself.

I can see this. The road they seemed to be heading down through RA was the band I raved on and on about. How "misunderstood" they were, and how no one (outside of PJ Land) knows the really good stuff like No Code and Yield, just Ten. Songs like The Fixer and Sirens certainly make it hard to think this is the same band. I don't know how to quite articulate, but it seems they were walking down a Neil Young and Sonic Youth road, but they turned down another road and went more U2 and Rolling Stones.

Pretty much. And that's the new context against which I try to appreciate them here and there. They're always going to be part of what makes me me, for good or ill. I don't see myself ever putting them down, even if it makes me an angry, bitter old man for what they've become.

Well put. The both of you.

15showsandcounting wrote:

harmless wrote:

darth_vedder wrote:

harmless wrote:The difficulty with this song is about much more than this song. For some, it's part of a long line of disappointing aspects of the new Pearl Jam who are a different band than the one they signed up for. I can't take that away from anyone, and I feel it to some extent myself.

I can see this. The road they seemed to be heading down through RA was the band I raved on and on about. How "misunderstood" they were, and how no one (outside of PJ Land) knows the really good stuff like No Code and Yield, just Ten. Songs like The Fixer and Sirens certainly make it hard to think this is the same band. I don't know how to quite articulate, but it seems they were walking down a Neil Young and Sonic Youth road, but they turned down another road and went more U2 and Rolling Stones.

Pretty much. And that's the new context against which I try to appreciate them here and there. They're always going to be part of what makes me me, for good or ill. I don't see myself ever putting them down, even if it makes me an angry, bitter old man for what they've become.

Well put. The both of you.

The thing is, though, we'll still be able to argue people don't know the good stuff. We can still proudly show people No Code, Yield, Binaural and Riot Act... people who have loved Sirens or hated Sirens and want to see the other side. We still have that.

Keep calm. They haven't exactly broken Miley Cyrus's record on video views with Sirens...yet.

Forgive me for my lack of brevity here....
But it appears to me that I am moving in the exact opposite direction from most of the people on this board. I feel like I was a PJ apologist pretty much from the beginning. For every Small Town and Betterman the band released, my discomfort with being a PJ fan grew by leaps and bounds. It was slowly apparent to me that PJ would never have the type of "indie-credibility" (as in anything the "cool" hipsters would accept into their little club of "all that which does not suck") that bands like Nirvana and Radiohead had, and probably will always have. For some reason, that's all I really wanted for the band.

Back then I was more of an indie/punk/hardcore/emo kid than an alternative/mainstream/classic rock fan. My friends and I listened to a lot of Fugazi, Sonic Youth, Pixies and stuff like that. Some of my friends appreciated Ten and maybe Vs, but the by the time Vitalogy came out I was made to be ashamed of my loyalty to PJ. I started to sneak it in whenever I could. With every new Pearl Jam album, probably all the way through S/T, I would look for signs that PJ was weird enough or experimental enough or whatever to gain that elusive "indie-credibility" status. There's no doubt that my mindset tainted my first listening experience with every single album from Vitalogy to S/T. Why the fuck should I care if Pitchfork gave a new Pearl Jam album a positive review? I don't know. But for some stupid reason I did care. The indie hipster in me just couldn't let Pearl Jam be Pearl Jam.

By the time Backspacer started to arrive, something started to shift though. I started to think "who gives a shit if people don't like this? I'm totally cool with this." Maybe it was me just growing up and getting older, or my taste in music was changing rapidly (listening to alt-country, funk, reggae, afrobeat and on and on), or I just didn't have the energy to apologize for Pearl Jam anymore. But as soon as I heard Sirens it was a total confirmation for me. Like a huge declaration. I feel a great sense of relief now. Sirens was the nail in the coffin that took that old way of thinking and laid it down to rest for good. Now I could care less what people think of PJ and what the reviews will say about Lightning Bolt because PJ is still just doing their thing and I dig it and that's enough me. No longer uncomfortable to be a Pearl Jam fan after 20 years.

Lament wrote:

broken iris wrote:Point me to a band that hasn't had at least one single worse than this song, much less at 23 years into their career.

Stone is always like 'Pfff! Sure, put HIM five steps in front of the rest of us'

Lounge Lizard wrote:

Lament wrote:

broken iris wrote:Point me to a band that hasn't had at least one single worse than this song, much less at 23 years into their career.

Stone is always like 'Pfff! Sure, put HIM five steps in front of the rest of us'

When Stone woke up that morning and realized it was album promo shot day, he went into his closest and made sure to pull out his best zip up sweater with reindeers on it. He wanted it to be special. So I can understand why he's upset about Ed being so far up front. He was really proud of that sweater.

bluestate wrote:Forgive me for my lack of brevity here....
But it appears to me that I am moving in the exact opposite direction from most of the people on this board. I feel like I was a PJ apologist pretty much from the beginning. For every Small Town and Betterman the band released, my discomfort with being a PJ fan grew by leaps and bounds. It was slowly apparent to me that PJ would never have the type of "indie-credibility" (as in anything the "cool" hipsters would accept into their little club of "all that which does not suck") that bands like Nirvana and Radiohead had, and probably will always have. For some reason, that's all I really wanted for the band.

Back then I was more of an indie/punk/hardcore/emo kid than an alternative/mainstream/classic rock fan. My friends and I listened to a lot of Fugazi, Sonic Youth, Pixies and stuff like that. Some of my friends appreciated Ten and maybe Vs, but the by the time Vitalogy came out I was made to be ashamed of my loyalty to PJ. I started to sneak it in whenever I could. With every new Pearl Jam album, probably all the way through S/T, I would look for signs that PJ was weird enough or experimental enough or whatever to gain that elusive "indie-credibility" status. There's no doubt that my mindset tainted my first listening experience with every single album from Vitalogy to S/T. Why the fuck should I care if Pitchfork gave a new Pearl Jam album a positive review? I don't know. But for some stupid reason I did care. The indie hipster in me just couldn't let Pearl Jam be Pearl Jam.

By the time Backspacer started to arrive, something started to shift though. I started to think "who gives a shit if people don't like this? I'm totally cool with this." Maybe it was me just growing up and getting older, or my taste in music was changing rapidly (listening to alt-country, funk, reggae, afrobeat and on and on), or I just didn't have the energy to apologize for Pearl Jam anymore. But as soon as I heard Sirens it was a total confirmation for me. Like a huge declaration. I feel a great sense of relief now. Sirens was the nail in the coffin that took that old way of thinking and laid it down to rest for good. Now I could care less what people think of PJ and what the reviews will say about Lightning Bolt because PJ is still just doing their thing and I dig it and that's enough me. No longer uncomfortable to be a Pearl Jam fan after 20 years.

20 years?!?! its about fucking time. what did all your nerdy hipster friends think of kurt cobain doing mtv stuff all the time? lol @ indie cred.

bluestate wrote:Forgive me for my lack of brevity here....
But it appears to me that I am moving in the exact opposite direction from most of the people on this board. I feel like I was a PJ apologist pretty much from the beginning. For every Small Town and Betterman the band released, my discomfort with being a PJ fan grew by leaps and bounds. It was slowly apparent to me that PJ would never have the type of "indie-credibility" (as in anything the "cool" hipsters would accept into their little club of "all that which does not suck") that bands like Nirvana and Radiohead had, and probably will always have. For some reason, that's all I really wanted for the band.

Back then I was more of an indie/punk/hardcore/emo kid than an alternative/mainstream/classic rock fan. My friends and I listened to a lot of Fugazi, Sonic Youth, Pixies and stuff like that. Some of my friends appreciated Ten and maybe Vs, but the by the time Vitalogy came out I was made to be ashamed of my loyalty to PJ. I started to sneak it in whenever I could. With every new Pearl Jam album, probably all the way through S/T, I would look for signs that PJ was weird enough or experimental enough or whatever to gain that elusive "indie-credibility" status. There's no doubt that my mindset tainted my first listening experience with every single album from Vitalogy to S/T. Why the fuck should I care if Pitchfork gave a new Pearl Jam album a positive review? I don't know. But for some stupid reason I did care. The indie hipster in me just couldn't let Pearl Jam be Pearl Jam.

By the time Backspacer started to arrive, something started to shift though. I started to think "who gives a shit if people don't like this? I'm totally cool with this." Maybe it was me just growing up and getting older, or my taste in music was changing rapidly (listening to alt-country, funk, reggae, afrobeat and on and on), or I just didn't have the energy to apologize for Pearl Jam anymore. But as soon as I heard Sirens it was a total confirmation for me. Like a huge declaration. I feel a great sense of relief now. Sirens was the nail in the coffin that took that old way of thinking and laid it down to rest for good. Now I could care less what people think of PJ and what the reviews will say about Lightning Bolt because PJ is still just doing their thing and I dig it and that's enough me. No longer uncomfortable to be a Pearl Jam fan after 20 years.

Solid, solid post.

Jaeti wrote:

bluestate wrote:Forgive me for my lack of brevity here....
But it appears to me that I am moving in the exact opposite direction from most of the people on this board. I feel like I was a PJ apologist pretty much from the beginning. For every Small Town and Betterman the band released, my discomfort with being a PJ fan grew by leaps and bounds. It was slowly apparent to me that PJ would never have the type of "indie-credibility" (as in anything the "cool" hipsters would accept into their little club of "all that which does not suck") that bands like Nirvana and Radiohead had, and probably will always have. For some reason, that's all I really wanted for the band.

Back then I was more of an indie/punk/hardcore/emo kid than an alternative/mainstream/classic rock fan. My friends and I listened to a lot of Fugazi, Sonic Youth, Pixies and stuff like that. Some of my friends appreciated Ten and maybe Vs, but the by the time Vitalogy came out I was made to be ashamed of my loyalty to PJ. I started to sneak it in whenever I could. With every new Pearl Jam album, probably all the way through S/T, I would look for signs that PJ was weird enough or experimental enough or whatever to gain that elusive "indie-credibility" status. There's no doubt that my mindset tainted my first listening experience with every single album from Vitalogy to S/T. Why the fuck should I care if Pitchfork gave a new Pearl Jam album a positive review? I don't know. But for some stupid reason I did care. The indie hipster in me just couldn't let Pearl Jam be Pearl Jam.

By the time Backspacer started to arrive, something started to shift though. I started to think "who gives a shit if people don't like this? I'm totally cool with this." Maybe it was me just growing up and getting older, or my taste in music was changing rapidly (listening to alt-country, funk, reggae, afrobeat and on and on), or I just didn't have the energy to apologize for Pearl Jam anymore. But as soon as I heard Sirens it was a total confirmation for me. Like a huge declaration. I feel a great sense of relief now. Sirens was the nail in the coffin that took that old way of thinking and laid it down to rest for good. Now I could care less what people think of PJ and what the reviews will say about Lightning Bolt because PJ is still just doing their thing and I dig it and that's enough me. No longer uncomfortable to be a Pearl Jam fan after 20 years.

Solid, solid post.

yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

BurtReynolds wrote:

Jaeti wrote:

bluestate wrote:Forgive me for my lack of brevity here....
But it appears to me that I am moving in the exact opposite direction from most of the people on this board. I feel like I was a PJ apologist pretty much from the beginning. For every Small Town and Betterman the band released, my discomfort with being a PJ fan grew by leaps and bounds. It was slowly apparent to me that PJ would never have the type of "indie-credibility" (as in anything the "cool" hipsters would accept into their little club of "all that which does not suck") that bands like Nirvana and Radiohead had, and probably will always have. For some reason, that's all I really wanted for the band.

Back then I was more of an indie/punk/hardcore/emo kid than an alternative/mainstream/classic rock fan. My friends and I listened to a lot of Fugazi, Sonic Youth, Pixies and stuff like that. Some of my friends appreciated Ten and maybe Vs, but the by the time Vitalogy came out I was made to be ashamed of my loyalty to PJ. I started to sneak it in whenever I could. With every new Pearl Jam album, probably all the way through S/T, I would look for signs that PJ was weird enough or experimental enough or whatever to gain that elusive "indie-credibility" status. There's no doubt that my mindset tainted my first listening experience with every single album from Vitalogy to S/T. Why the fuck should I care if Pitchfork gave a new Pearl Jam album a positive review? I don't know. But for some stupid reason I did care. The indie hipster in me just couldn't let Pearl Jam be Pearl Jam.

By the time Backspacer started to arrive, something started to shift though. I started to think "who gives a shit if people don't like this? I'm totally cool with this." Maybe it was me just growing up and getting older, or my taste in music was changing rapidly (listening to alt-country, funk, reggae, afrobeat and on and on), or I just didn't have the energy to apologize for Pearl Jam anymore. But as soon as I heard Sirens it was a total confirmation for me. Like a huge declaration. I feel a great sense of relief now. Sirens was the nail in the coffin that took that old way of thinking and laid it down to rest for good. Now I could care less what people think of PJ and what the reviews will say about Lightning Bolt because PJ is still just doing their thing and I dig it and that's enough me. No longer uncomfortable to be a Pearl Jam fan after 20 years.

Solid, solid post.

yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Lament wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

Lament wrote:

broken iris wrote:Point me to a band that hasn't had at least one single worse than this song, much less at 23 years into their career.

Stone is always like 'Pfff! Sure, put HIM five steps in front of the rest of us'

When Stone woke up that morning and realized it was album promo shot day, he went into his closest and made sure to pull out his best zip up sweater with reindeers on it. He wanted it to be special. So I can understand why he's upset about Ed being so far up front. He was really proud of that sweater.

Plaid flannel always wins

warehouse wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Just how lame is it that when people ask each other about their favorite bands you go 'COUGH pearljam COUGH' and then change the subject in a hurry

Lounge Lizard wrote:

warehouse wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Just how lame is it that when people ask each other about their favorite bands you go 'COUGH pearljam COUGH' and then change the subject in a hurry

That ended for me with The Fixer. It was very freeing to finally be able to say "Mogwai".

Lounge Lizard wrote:

warehouse wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Just how lame is it that when people ask each other about their favorite bands you go 'COUGH pearljam COUGH' and then change the subject in a hurry

No, I say "hey you know what, I'm kind of a dork and all so I love Pearl Jam"

Ah yes, the freedom to be uncool.

BurtReynolds wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

warehouse wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Just how lame is it that when people ask each other about their favorite bands you go 'COUGH pearljam COUGH' and then change the subject in a hurry

That ended for me with The Fixer. It was very freeing to finally be able to say "Mogwai".

Yeah, but remember '95-96 when you said 'PEARL JAM MAAAAAN!' and they were like 'Yeeeeeahhhh baby!'

bluestate wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

warehouse wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Just how lame is it that when people ask each other about their favorite bands you go 'COUGH pearljam COUGH' and then change the subject in a hurry

No, I say "hey you know what, I'm kind of a dork and all so I love Pearl Jam"

Ah yes, the freedom to be uncool.

the strange thing is, pearl jam was cool this entire time until whenever backspacer came out.

warehouse wrote:

bluestate wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

warehouse wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Just how lame is it that when people ask each other about their favorite bands you go 'COUGH pearljam COUGH' and then change the subject in a hurry

No, I say "hey you know what, I'm kind of a dork and all so I love Pearl Jam"

Ah yes, the freedom to be uncool.

the strange thing is, pearl jam was cool this entire time until whenever backspacer came out.

Not really.

warehouse wrote:

bluestate wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

warehouse wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Just how lame is it that when people ask each other about their favorite bands you go 'COUGH pearljam COUGH' and then change the subject in a hurry

No, I say "hey you know what, I'm kind of a dork and all so I love Pearl Jam"

Ah yes, the freedom to be uncool.

the strange thing is, pearl jam was cool this entire time until whenever backspacer came out.

Really?
Nah... I think it pretty much ended right after No Code and even Yield was regarded as a failed attempt to regain some ground, and it went steadily downhill since.

Lounge Lizard wrote:

warehouse wrote:

bluestate wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

warehouse wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Just how lame is it that when people ask each other about their favorite bands you go 'COUGH pearljam COUGH' and then change the subject in a hurry

No, I say "hey you know what, I'm kind of a dork and all so I love Pearl Jam"

Ah yes, the freedom to be uncool.

the strange thing is, pearl jam was cool this entire time until whenever backspacer came out.

Really?
Nah... I think it pretty much ended right after No Code and even Yield was regarded as failed attempt to regain some ground, and it went steadily downhill since.

their mainstream popularity went downhill after no code, but thats not really what im talking about. from vitalogy to binaural they released 4 albums, one every 2 years, each with different feel to it. they've always written "pearl jam" type songs, but their catalog is more diverse than most hipsters will admit.

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:

bluestate wrote:

Lounge Lizard wrote:

warehouse wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote: yes congrats on your freedom to like music no matter how lame it is.

Just how lame is it that when people ask each other about their favorite bands you go 'COUGH pearljam COUGH' and then change the subject in a hurry

No, I say "hey you know what, I'm kind of a dork and all so I love Pearl Jam"

Ah yes, the freedom to be uncool.

the strange thing is, pearl jam was cool this entire time until whenever backspacer came out.

Not really.

arent u the guy who doesnt like pink floyd?