Red Mosquito

McParadigm wrote:

harmless wrote:Just wanted to say appreciated this post. Clarification is a good thing.

I wrote you a response as to why this stuff is working for me, despite the fact that I love Tom Waits, Neil Young, No Code, Binaural, Riot Act etc. as much as you do. But I accidentally deleted it... so fuck that.

Thanks. I do mean it when I say I can see why somebody would like these songs. They're very well done, the sound is good, and a lot of the stuff (warble warble smoosh) that was a concern in recent years is pretty absent. In fact, I think it's probably more "reasonable" (if that term can be applied to preference) to like all the above stuff and to also like this record, otherwise I wouldn't feel the need to explain why that's not happening for me at all.

Additionally, I think it's more fun to enjoy music than it is to be disappointed with/make fun of/something else it.

I... I... I... uh... what.... yes... this is perfect. *rug pulled out from under*

I totally get people getting off the train because I've had that experience with so many other bands, even though I feel pretty great about Pearl Jam right now.


But what happens if the last 3-4 songs end up being songs that you really like a lot. Do you stick around in limbo hoping that this approach comes to dominate, coast along taking what you can get, or still walk away? I'm sure that is immensely frustrating as fan/former fan

stip wrote:I totally get people getting off the train because I've had that experience with so many other bands, even though I feel pretty great about Pearl Jam right now.


But what happens if the last 3-4 songs end up being songs that you really like a lot. Do you stick around in limbo hoping that this approach comes to dominate, coast along taking what you can get, or still walk away? I'm sure that is immensely frustrating as fan/former fan

Haven't read all of the posts in this thread, but I don't think fandom has to be this "monogomous" thing. It doesn't have to be "I'm breaking up with you" or "I'm getting off of this train". I think it's fine if fans explore other tastes, leaving the door open to coming back or not. If the band is good enough, past or present, something will bring you back b/c of the connection they are able to make.

stip wrote:But what happens if the last 3-4 songs end up being songs that you really like a lot. Do you stick around in limbo hoping that this approach comes to dominate, coast along taking what you can get, or still walk away? I'm sure that is immensely frustrating as fan/former fan

At this rate it might just make things worse if the last songs are great. But I fully expect at least one of them to be ska so I should be fine.

i haven't participated in this thread yet, but hey, why not.

i'll preface by saying that i'm part of the no leak club, so the only thing that i've heard from LB is MYM.

So before LB, i can safely/easily say that Pearl Jam is my favourite band, and has been without question since VS came out. I was only 11 i think when that album came out and i was just starting to get into music, so i have a real personal connection with their music.

i like all of their albums to some extent. the only one that i had a real problem with was Binaural. I couldn't get into that album for probably 2-3 years, but now i have a strong appreciation for it. everything else i've enjoyed at least some (if not most/all) aspects of them.

with that being said, i listen to a lot of other music (at least i think i do, but perhaps not as much as some of the people on here), and over the years my musical preferences have definitely changed quite a bit... but PJ has always been a constant. i think, since i listen to quite a bit of other stuff, it hasn't been difficult at all to be part of the no leak club. while i'm extremely interested in hearing this new album, i have zero problem holding off on low quality leaks because i'm enjoying a lot of other stuff at the moment. but when LB does get released, i'm sure i will give it regular listens for quite a few months. once the honeymoon period is over, i'm sure it will settle in somewhere in my ranking list and i'll listen to it occasionally when the mood fits, just like all of their albums. but i'm anxious to see just how much i like it, based on reading other people's reactions to the leaked songs. and if for some reason i'm disappointed, it won't be a huge deal. there's bound to be some stuff that i will enjoy and i'll just focus on those songs.

that's a relief.


From everything we've heard infallible, pendulum, and yellow moon are, if not the best three songs on the record, the three that seem written to please those who have been unhappy thus far. So what has been released thus seems to be calculated to maximize the disenfranchisement of the 'everything kinda sucks since riot act' crowd (I know that's overbroad)

My fandom is DOA. I'll be forever stuck at 19 shows. I'm fine with that, it was good while it lasted. I'm a bit sad my kids won't experience a show with me, but I'm fearful they would be scarred by these new songs.

stip wrote:that's a relief.


From everything we've heard infallible, pendulum, and yellow moon are, if not the best three songs on the record, the three that seem written to please those who have been unhappy thus far. So what has been released thus seems to be calculated to maximize the disenfranchisement of the 'everything kinda sucks since riot act' crowd (I know that's overbroad)

I think so too. So in that sense, this album is the anti-No Code. They want to move on in the way they want to carry on, but it's going to take a somewhat "clean" break from the old sound.

stip wrote:that's a relief.


From everything we've heard infallible, pendulum, and yellow moon are, if not the best three songs on the record, the three that seem written to please those who have been unhappy thus far. So what has been released thus seems to be calculated to maximize the disenfranchisement of the 'everything kinda sucks since riot act' crowd (I know that's overbroad)

That last review kinda put a damper on that idea for me.

‘Infallible’

Ooh, more synths.

‘Pendulum’

Yet more synths, and some piano too.

Yeah that was weird simply because I'm so surprised earlier reviews didn't mention it.

perhaps. My question is obviously predicated on these songs being songs you'd actually really like.



With the exception of MYM (hell, even with MYM a little bit) these are all songs I did not love right away. Even L-bolt, which I can't stop praising, had about 15 or so (maybe more) listens to the live version in the weeks before the leak. This has largely been the norm for pearl jam for me always. And the more I listen to these songs, the more familiar they become, the more I get absorbed into them. Things start to click, little subtleties reveal themselves, and the inner nature of the song becomes more apparent. And that's true of every band to a degree, but for whatever reason pearl jam has always had that be the case for me to a far greater extent than any other music I listen to.

I wonder for posters who were a bit soured going in if part of the problem is just a song getting 1-2 listens and then giving up. Because if I just gave these songs 1-2 listens I'd be fairly underwhelmed and I felt good going in.

Obviously it's totally plausible someone would just never give a shit about some or even all of these songs. But for ostensibly accessible songs it's really been a slow slide into each of them, and I wonder if, given the time, that would have happened for some people.

Of course if it's time someone doesn't feel like committing than that's that. But I've had to work just about as hard for almost every pearl jam record and the vast majority of the songs. so for me at least this is not a 'oh, listen to a shitty song and you get used to it' kinda post. It's been the norm for me since vs, with a few exceptions. But since I still am invested it doesn't feel like work reaching the point when the song puts down roots.

stip wrote:perhaps. My question is obviously predicated on these songs being songs you'd actually really like.



With the exception of MYM (hell, even with MYM a little bit) these are all songs I did not love right away. Even L-bolt, which I can't stop praising, had about 15 or so (maybe more) listens to the live version in the weeks before the leak. This has largely been the norm for pearl jam for me always. And the more I listen to these songs, the more familiar they become, the more I get absorbed into them. Things start to click, little subtleties reveal themselves, and the inner nature of the song becomes more apparent. And that's true of every band to a degree, but for whatever reason pearl jam has always had that be the case for me to a far greater extent than any other music I listen to.

I wonder for posters who were a bit soured going in if part of the problem is just a song getting 1-2 listens and then giving up. Because if I just gave these songs 1-2 listens I'd be fairly underwhelmed and I felt good going in.

Obviously it's totally plausible someone would just never give a shit about some or even all of these songs. But for ostensibly accessible songs it's really been a slow slide into each of them, and I wonder if, given the time, that would have happened for some people.

Of course if it's time someone doesn't feel like committing than that's that. But I've had to work just about as hard for almost every pearl jam record and the vast majority of the songs. so for me at least this is not a 'oh, listen to a shitty song and you get used to it' kinda post. It's been the norm for me since vs, with a few exceptions. But since I still am invested it doesn't feel like work reaching the point when the song puts down roots.

Totally relate to that. This is just PJ fucking with my head exactly as they've always done. I tried to do the same as I'd always done for S/T and Backspacer, give them both a lot of time and patience, but not a great deal happened -- though not nothing, because I enjoy those albums quite a bit in places. But I've fallen in love with these songs because right away, my reaction wasn't "Meh", it was "Huh? Interesting....." and that's always been the best start on listening to a PJ song.

stip wrote:I wonder for posters who were a bit soured going in if part of the problem is just a song getting 1-2 listens and then giving up. Because if I just gave these songs 1-2 listens I'd be fairly underwhelmed and I felt good going in.

I can only speak for myself, but I have 8 hours a day in a cubicle. Each of these songs has gotten spun at least once a day since the leaks appeared. Some of that is "you can't start a fire without a spark," and some of that is "that didn't really happen, did it?" But it's always open and hopeful for that spark in the aforementioned verse.

stip wrote:perhaps. My question is obviously predicated on these songs being songs you'd actually really like.



With the exception of MYM (hell, even with MYM a little bit) these are all songs I did not love right away. Even L-bolt, which I can't stop praising, had about 15 or so (maybe more) listens to the live version in the weeks before the leak. This has largely been the norm for pearl jam for me always. And the more I listen to these songs, the more familiar they become, the more I get absorbed into them. Things start to click, little subtleties reveal themselves, and the inner nature of the song becomes more apparent. And that's true of every band to a degree, but for whatever reason pearl jam has always had that be the case for me to a far greater extent than any other music I listen to.

I wonder for posters who were a bit soured going in if part of the problem is just a song getting 1-2 listens and then giving up. Because if I just gave these songs 1-2 listens I'd be fairly underwhelmed and I felt good going in.

Obviously it's totally plausible someone would just never give a shit about some or even all of these songs. But for ostensibly accessible songs it's really been a slow slide into each of them, and I wonder if, given the time, that would have happened for some people.

Of course if it's time someone doesn't feel like committing than that's that. But I've had to work just about as hard for almost every pearl jam record and the vast majority of the songs. so for me at least this is not a 'oh, listen to a shitty song and you get used to it' kinda post. It's been the norm for me since vs, with a few exceptions. But since I still am invested it doesn't feel like work reaching the point when the song puts down roots.

I've never had to force myself into any of the albums up until Riot Act (included). It was just the right kind of music for me. I tried to get into S/T, I tried hard, but to no avail. Since then this band and I have both taken different directions and I don't feel like torturing myself 15 times with Bryan Adams kinds of songs or Ramones kinds of songs or Shania Twain kinds of songs, if I were going to enjoy this style of music I would have done it long ago already. I don't mind giving something repeated listens if I feel like there's something there that's worth digging deep, but this is not the case here. We're not dealing with particularly radical music that's gonna take you by surprise so much on first listen that you need time to digest it, it's pretty straight-forward music (nothing wrong with that at all).

for seemingly straightforward music it always took a while to click for me, but that could also just be me. No album ever really jumped out at me immediately except maybe S/T and Backspacer, beyond a general new pearl jam glow that made me want to listen and find the connection.

stip wrote:for seemingly straightforward music it always took a while to click for me, but that could also just be me. No album ever really jumped out at me immediately except maybe S/T and Backspacer, beyond a general new pearl jam glow that made me want to listen and find the connection.

I've listened to these songs at least 10 times apiece. And just don't find them compelling. Even though I didn't initially like RA, I was drawn to listen to it and "peel back the layers" if you will. There's simple no depth to these songs to draw me in.

turned2black wrote:

stip wrote:for seemingly straightforward music it always took a while to click for me, but that could also just be me. No album ever really jumped out at me immediately except maybe S/T and Backspacer, beyond a general new pearl jam glow that made me want to listen and find the connection.

I've listened to these songs at least 10 times apiece. And just don't find them compelling. Even though I didn't initially like RA, I was drawn to listen to it and "peel back the layers" if you will. There's simple no depth to these songs to draw me in.

I think some people are drawn to a difficult "depth" which draws them into an eventual appreciation of the sound. Others are drawn to a sound which draws them into an eventual appreciation of depth. Others like both; but if you're generally only one kind of person, you won't be able to do the other thing: find the sound, or find the depth. If that makes sense.

bump for pete