*new song* I won't hold on (?)

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

Preferring new Pearl Jam is almost as ridiculous as preferring new Aerosmith. Or that Cream live reunion album where they all sound like they are on crack.

[harmless]

Bad false start. It sounds like a parody of the Pearl Jam style. Not at all interesting.

[harmless]

I hope they play this one on the first leg of the Pearl Jam's Magical Mystery Box Tour.

[digster]

Being accessible or wanting to be heard on radio and making music with the intention of selling a huge number of records, gaining sponsorships, etc. are two completely different things.

Isn't what Mike is saying here absolutely the latter?

But now that we're putting out a record on our own, we're taking on the responsibility of sinking or swimming ourselves. If that means writing a song that sounds like a mainstream radio hit, we're going to do that.

He's saying that if they have to, they're going to write a song in a certain way so that it gets on the radio and sounds like a mainstream radio hit. He's saying they will let commercial concerns influence their writing process. That's pretty cut-and-dry. He's not saying they're going to revert back to the way they used to do things. If he meant that, he likely would have said that.

I don't particularly care either way; if the song is good, I'm not too concerned with how they got there. But I don't really see another way to read that.

[Kaius]

THERE COULD BE ANYTHING IN THAT MYSTERY BOX. YOU DON'T KNOW. THERE MIGHT EVEN BE DIAPERS IN IT. OR ANOTHER, SMALL MYSTERY BOX. FILLED WITH SMALLER DIAPERS.

lol

[stip]

Being accessible or wanting to be heard on radio and making music with the intention of selling a huge number of records, gaining sponsorships, etc. are two completely different things.

Isn't what Mike is saying here absolutely the latter?

But now that we're putting out a record on our own, we're taking on the responsibility of sinking or swimming ourselves. If that means writing a song that sounds like a mainstream radio hit, we're going to do that.

He's saying that if they have to, they're going to write a song in a certain way so that it gets on the radio and sounds like a mainstream radio hit. He's saying they will let commercial concerns influence their writing process. That's pretty cut-and-dry. He's not saying they're going to revert back to the way they used to do things. If he meant that, he likely would have said that.

I don't particularly care either way; if the song is good, I'm not too concerned with how they got there. But I don't really see another way to read that.

You're right, but it think release me's larger point (and certainly mine) is that there is a difference between writing songs to grow a larger audience or maintain a certain footprint (albums sold, venues played in, size of organization) since you are no longer able to rely on corporate sponsorship (lets not forget what a major label is), and wanting to write songs to make yourself as much money as possible.

Nor should we read more into those quotes than they actually say. A willingness to not deliberately shy away from writing a song like just breathe is not the same thing as wanting every song to be just breathe

[Release_Me]

THERE COULD BE ANYTHING IN THAT MYSTERY BOX. YOU DON'T KNOW. THERE MIGHT EVEN BE DIAPERS IN IT. OR ANOTHER, SMALL MYSTERY BOX. FILLED WITH SMALLER DIAPERS.

I live in a 3rd world country where Ten Club won't be shipping the mystery box anyway. Whatever I spend to renew my Ten Club annual membership is all they'll get from me. Call me a cheapskate but that's how it is!

[Jorge]

Where do you live?

[Release_Me]

Preferring new Pearl Jam is almost as ridiculous as preferring new Aerosmith. Or that Cream live reunion album where they all sound like they are on crack.

Preferring new Pearl Jam to early Pearl Jam (the first three albums) might be ridiculous. But preferring new PJ to middle period PJ? I don't see why that's so wrong.

[Release_Me]

Where do you live?

You really want to know? I don't think I'll be viewed the same way if I told you.

[Release_Me]

Being accessible or wanting to be heard on radio and making music with the intention of selling a huge number of records, gaining sponsorships, etc. are two completely different things.

Isn't what Mike is saying here absolutely the latter?

But now that we're putting out a record on our own, we're taking on the responsibility of sinking or swimming ourselves. If that means writing a song that sounds like a mainstream radio hit, we're going to do that.

He's saying that if they have to, they're going to write a song in a certain way so that it gets on the radio and sounds like a mainstream radio hit. He's saying they will let commercial concerns influence their writing process. That's pretty cut-and-dry. He's not saying they're going to revert back to the way they used to do things. If he meant that, he likely would have said that.

I don't particularly care either way; if the song is good, I'm not too concerned with how they got there. But I don't really see another way to read that.

You're right, but it think release me's larger point (and certainly mine) is that there is a difference between writing songs to grow a larger audience or maintain a certain footprint (albums sold, venues played in, size of organization) since you are no longer able to rely on corporate sponsorship (lets not forget what a major label is), and wanting to write songs to make yourself as much money as possible.

Nor should we read more into those quotes than they actually say. A willingness to not deliberately shy away from writing a song like just breathe is not the same thing as wanting every song to be just breathe

I agree with what Stip said. I don't think it's about trying to be greedy and pander to the general public with the hope of getting loads of new fans. That's just not realistic at this point in time.

Mike's quote about sinking or swimming probably has something to do with the appreciation of the album within the fanbase, which is really the only audience likely to pay money for their new music and hence decide the commercial success or failure of any new release. And I do believe they care about what their fans might want to hear. They're past that phase where they would just put out whatever they wanted on an album because they're Pearl Jam, the biggest band in the world. I feel the quote has more to do with being relevant, especially in the light of what Ed said about wanting to be heard. Now that they're without a major label, it's all on them how they go about it. They probably want to be talked about again in rock circles as a band that still matters, not the 'are those guys still around? I thought they broke up after Jeremy' band. To do that without the backing of a major label means they can't afford to be intentionally difficult. You want radio to play your songs, you're going to have to give them a good reason. That's where they probably felt they needed to be more accessible than they'd been on the last few albums.

That said, it's less about being accessible than it is about being intentionally NOT accessible. This is the band that didn't put Better Man on Vs because it sounded too catchy. The willingness to not deliberately shy away from certain types of songs, as Stip put it, because they don't fit their 'alternative' credentials. If they come up with what they think is a great pop song now, they'll go ahead and release it as a single instead of keeping it under wraps.

[digster]

I think that's might just be reading what you want to into that quote, more than is there. He's not saying they're going to not shy away from releasing a song like Just Breathe anymore. He says that if putting out records on their own means writing a song as accessible and mainstream as Just Breathe to raise their stature, they'll do it. Which is pretty much exactly what it means to change your songwriting to be more mainstream.

Like I said before, I don't think that makes it automatically inferior, or that someone can't prefer it to their other records; a lot of the best records made were done to get a paycheck. I would say that it seems like ever since they've tried to be more accessible in the past decade, their music has significantly suffered, but not everyone's going to agree with me on that.

[Jorge]

Where do you live?

You really want to know? I don't think I'll be viewed the same way if I told you.

India?

[Jorge]

The Philippines?

[Jorge]

South Africa

[Jorge]

Detroit

[stip]

Where do you live?

You really want to know? I don't think I'll be viewed the same way if I told you.

India?

Mississippi

[stip]

Shit, Mississippi would have been funnier if you hadn't gotten to detroit

[Birds in Hell]

But now that we're putting out a record on our own, we're taking on the responsibility of sinking or swimming ourselves. If that means writing a song that sounds like a mainstream radio hit, we're going to do that.

Mike's quote about sinking or swimming probably has something to do with the appreciation of the album within the fanbase, which is really the only audience likely to pay money for their new music and hence decide the commercial success or failure of any new release.

That's absurd.

Mike's quote makes no sense if read as referring to the band's existing fans (unless you think Pearl Jam's fanbase at large is pining for the band to crank out "mainstream radio hits".)

That said, it's less about being accessible than it is about being intentionally NOT accessible.

I genuinely don't the band has ever done this. They just started to write better songs during their middle period (and decided to engage less with the press at the same time).

I think it's bizarre to imagine the band putting their minds to making wilfully poor quality music in the hope of alienating their fans.

[stip]

I think that's might just be reading what you want to into that quote, more than is there. He's not saying they're going to not shy away from releasing a song like Just Breathe anymore. He says that if putting out records on their own means writing a song as accessible and mainstream as Just Breathe to raise their stature, they'll do it. Which is pretty much exactly what it means to change your songwriting to be more mainstream.

Like I said before, I don't think that makes it automatically inferior, or that someone can't prefer it to their other records; a lot of the best records made were done to get a paycheck. I would say that it seems like ever since they've tried to be more accessible in the past decade, their music has significantly suffered, but not everyone's going to agree with me on that.

True, but it also reads way too much into what's there to assume that this constitutes an absolute shift in songwriting - that everything is written to try and be a potential hit and maximize 'mainstream' appeal

I'm also with you, in the end I don't care what the motivation is as long as the song is good.