tragabigzanda wrote:I thought the acting ranged from fine to excellent. 100% of the problems lie with the writing.
I'd agree that most of the problem was the writing. Maybe its unfair to blame the actors, all of whom I usually like, so maybe I'll blame the directing instead of blaming the actors directly for the bad acting. There were long scenes of Colin Farrell and Vince Vaughn unintelligibly growling at each other in the exact same cartoonish voice. That's the only thing that stands out in my head right now, but I'm sure there were other misfires on that front.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 6:32 pm
by tragabigzanda
Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 6:34 pm
by The Argonaut
Two years later, I still get an angry pain in my chest just thinking about Season 2.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 6:35 pm
by tragabigzanda
Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 6:40 pm
by The Argonaut
Guy is fine, but, at this point, he's pretty overrated. He might still prove himself and live up to the hype, though. I'm more comforted by the two year hiatus and the involvement of David Milch. I really think that the main issue with S2 was that Pizzollato was basically alone creating eight hours of content immediately after he had just created eight hours of content completely alone (S1). One guy can only have so many good idea during one year. Adding new minds and having some time to come up with something good...good signs.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 9:14 pm
by epilogue
Disagree to some extent. There was a ton of stuff in the text that the actors totally botched. Vaughn especially. I loved some of the really subtle but razor sharp clues that were left for Vaughn to pick up on and he just whiffed. I'm not sure if that's Vaughn's fault or the direction. But it isn't in the writing.
Every component was off in TD2. Sometimes it was the writing being too convoluted. Sometimes it was the direction being too lazy. Sometimes it was the acting being either way to dumbed-down and flat or way too big and operatic. The tone was inconsistent. Having one director -- preferably a fucking visionary like Cary Fukanaga -- direct every episode would have been helpful. Giving Nic Pizzolatto sufficient time to conceive and construct a coherent narrative would have been helpful too. HBO rushed the second season. Corners were cut and the whole thing felt too soggy compared to the unbelievably high expectations the first season delivered.
To dump all that went wrong on Nic is unfair.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 9:19 pm
by VinylGuy
I kinda agree with Joey although i enjoyed the show. It was okei, not minda blowing like S1 of course...and yes, i think the writing was way too difficult and weird.
So i blame Nic.
I dont agree with Joey.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 9:21 pm
by epilogue
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 9:45 pm
by Chris_H_2
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 9:58 pm
by run2death
Too bad we didn't get 10-minute long shots of her ass instead of Colin Farrell stupid fucking face.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 10:01 pm
by The Argonaut
I may have cheered at this moment in the finale---
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 10:13 pm
by tragabigzanda
Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 10:23 pm
by epilogue
tragabigzanda wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:There was a ton of stuff in the text that the actors totally botched. Vaughn especially. I loved some of the really subtle but razor sharp clues that were left for Vaughn to pick up on and he just whiffed.
Sorry, can you give examples of this? I remember a lot of times thinking "Ugh, for real?" at lines that Vaughn had to deliver, but I can't think of a single time I'd blame his delivery.
The character was a "self-made" man with a past he was trying to shed. Nic wrote a lot of vocal cues into Frank's lines. There were many times (I'm sorry, I don't have any specific examples to reference since I watched it so long ago) where Nic was trying to give Vince a clue about his character (when to lie, when to evade, when to bolster) based on the words he used. At certain times Vince was supposed to slip back into his old self. He would only use certain expressions when he was trapped. Or certain expressions when he was slipping. Or certain expressions when he was pretending. And I remember them all being very consistent in the text. But Vaughn never hit it. His delivery never changed. His subtext never came through. Nic tried to help him but Vaughn missed it every time.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 10:26 pm
by epilogue
But this does ultimately speak to what you were saying earlier. The writing is flawed. It's too dense and too confused. He needed time to edit, rewrite, and clarify. HBO didn't give him that time and the whole thing suffered. Still, you give those same lines to DDL or even Matthew McConaughey and I promise you they shine. The lines weren't always the problem. The incompetent direction and the laden acting were also to blame.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 10:31 pm
by EJ
It was a pretty bad casting job. I didn't mind Vaughn so much in that role. But, I kept expecting Farrell to accidentally chew his moustache off (like Peter Brady) in one of his scenes.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 10:39 pm
by tragabigzanda
Steve Albini wrote:Whenever there's active promotion on the part of somebody else, whenever I see somebody all dolled up for a fancy photograph and someone's handing out flyers or whenever there's active promotion for something like that, as an imposition on my day, I hate all those people and I want them to fail. I have a visceral reaction to advertising and promotion. There's just something about salesmanship that grates on me on a very base level and I react very negatively towards it. I want those people to suffer and I want their enterprises to fail.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 11:05 pm
by Strat
Remember when they spent the first half of the season to lead up to the big gun fight? Then it kind of just....uh....jumped ahead to something else that seemed to not make much sense?
I dont dare re-watch the season but perhaps it might make more sense to Binge watch it. The writing was mostly atrocious and the actors didnt do all the best they could with what they had. That might be on the director as well. i imagined the writers sitting around the room and coming up with a line they just thought would be a tight zinger of sorts. All with huge smiles on their faces. Then when Vince Vaughn delivered them they fell completely flat. "Dont you dare shoot me!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-PDn0SNASI) "never even had a fucking cavity"
Lol.
It was obviously rushed to capitalize on the first season and it failed miserably. I hate watched it every week waiting for something to happen. It had no identity because it was far too convoluted.
The one part I loved was with Firth lost his shit on the dad and beat him to a bloody pulp. That was mostly hysterical though (if i recall correctly).
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 11:11 pm
by run2death
That shootout scene was horribly choreographed. A complete and total mess. Made worse by the fact that Season 1 had that amazing one through the housing complex.
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 11:12 pm
by The Argonaut
run2death wrote:That shootout scene was horribly choreographed. A complete and total mess. Made worse by the fact that Season 1 had that amazing one through the housing complex.
oh man that one in the first season was sooooo good. I'm going to watch season one again (I've never re-watched since the original airing)
Re: HBO Television Show: True Detective
Posted: Wed July 05, 2017 11:13 pm
by Strat
run2death wrote:That shootout scene was horribly choreographed. A complete and total mess. Made worse by the fact that Season 1 had that amazing one through the housing complex.
on top of that fantastic Grinderman soundtrack...oh baby. One of the best moments in film history right there, folks.
