Red Mosquito

LoathedVermin72 wrote:WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK IF IT BEGINS WITH SOME WORDS MOVING SLOWLY UPWARD OR NOT?! WHY DOES THIS MATTER AT ALL?! All we should be worried about is whether or not it's any good as it's own entity.

Would you be mad if Kanye stopped being Kanye?

Strat wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK IF IT BEGINS WITH SOME WORDS MOVING SLOWLY UPWARD OR NOT?! WHY DOES THIS MATTER AT ALL?! All we should be worried about is whether or not it's any good as it's own entity.

Would you be mad if Kanye stopped being Kanye?

That's literally impossible, Strat.

durdencommatyler wrote:However, I do think they should keep the "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" opening.

why this, but not a crawl?

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

Strat wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK IF IT BEGINS WITH SOME WORDS MOVING SLOWLY UPWARD OR NOT?! WHY DOES THIS MATTER AT ALL?! All we should be worried about is whether or not it's any good as it's own entity.

Would you be mad if Kanye stopped being Kanye?

That's literally impossible, Strat.

ask his father/mother in law

VinylGuy wrote:

stip wrote:It adds a lot - even if it's not necessary for exposition purposes (though it is helpful) it is one of the things that helps establish that this is Star Wars - a piece of iconography that isn't character based and does not potentially constrain your storytelling.

I dunno.
I mean, yeah its classic star wars iconography, but if Star Wars is going forward with its universe , its time to relax and change too...if its not needed im ok with no crawl at all...of course nobody in the right mind would do it, because fans.

Man, the fan culture is really, really fucking things up.

VG, this whole movie is an exercise in fan culture - more than Episode VII. They chose the safest possible story possible. It allegedly ends moments before A New Hope begins and tells a story whose ultimate conclusion is known to the entire audience prior to the start of the movie. An entire universe with thousands of years of history and this is what they pick? And you feel that iconic expository text that does not in any way, shape, or form impact the story you want to tell is' fan culture really, really fucking things up'

I have no particular issue with them focusing on this moment in history, btw, because the star wars universe REALLY is the force, the empire/rebellion, and the skywalkers. If we care about the history we care about it insofar as it sets up these later stories.

I mean, if you set a story a long time ago in a galaxy far far away from these main reference points it has as much in common with Star Wars as a movie about ancient greece has with world war II. They take place on the same planet. They both feature humans. There will probably be fighting. But someone hankering for a great world war II movie isn't going to have that itch scratched by 300. They may enjoy the movie. It may be a story worth telling. But then don't dress it up as a world war II story.

stip wrote:I have no particular issue with them focusing on this moment in history, btw, because the star wars universe REALLY is the force, the empire/rebellion, and the skywalkers. If we care about the history we care about it insofar as it sets up these later stories.

I mean, if you set a story a long time ago in a galaxy far far away from these main reference points it has as much in common with Star Wars as a movie about ancient greece has with world war II. They take place on the same planet. They both feature humans. There will probably be fighting. But someone hankering for a great world war II movie isn't going to have that itch scratched by 300. They may enjoy the movie. It may be a story worth telling. But then don't dress it up as a world war II story.

I'm not sure about this. What about something like KOTOR? It takes place 4,000 years before the rise of the Empire, would you say it's not really Star Wars? Because KOTOR is definitely Star Wars.

I fucking hate this thread

Leatherhead wrote:

stip wrote:I have no particular issue with them focusing on this moment in history, btw, because the star wars universe REALLY is the force, the empire/rebellion, and the skywalkers. If we care about the history we care about it insofar as it sets up these later stories.

I mean, if you set a story a long time ago in a galaxy far far away from these main reference points it has as much in common with Star Wars as a movie about ancient greece has with world war II. They take place on the same planet. They both feature humans. There will probably be fighting. But someone hankering for a great world war II movie isn't going to have that itch scratched by 300. They may enjoy the movie. It may be a story worth telling. But then don't dress it up as a world war II story.

I'm not sure about this. What about something like KOTOR? It takes place 4,000 years before the rise of the Empire, would you say it's not really Star Wars? Because KOTOR is definitely Star Wars.

Oh sure, but it's all the force and jedi and lightsabers and building a story around these overtly recognizable star wars symbols and mythology. My list above wasn't really exhaustive. I never played the games, but I am sure they felt incredibly familiar. The way these games/stories really blew up the powers of jedi (turning them from weird mystics with fantastic but constrained powers into superheroes) probably, more than anything, is an example of fan culture run amok (though I'm not sure if the jedi as superhero stems from episode I or the expanded universe prior to it) more than anything we've recently seen.

In a way, scaling back the power of the jedi is one of the most important things Episode VII did.


As to my larger point, though - we want star wars to be star wars. stripping these things from star wars just turns it into wars in the stars. Wanting to hear stories not revolving around this particularly eventful 100 year period of galactic history is fine, and I'm on board, but then it's essential that there be star wars connective tissue. If it's not going to be X-wings and skywalkers then it needs to be the force and jedi, or wookies and ewoks, or something.

And above all it should have the 'long time ago' and crawl introduction!!!!!

stip wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:

stip wrote:I have no particular issue with them focusing on this moment in history, btw, because the star wars universe REALLY is the force, the empire/rebellion, and the skywalkers. If we care about the history we care about it insofar as it sets up these later stories.

I mean, if you set a story a long time ago in a galaxy far far away from these main reference points it has as much in common with Star Wars as a movie about ancient greece has with world war II. They take place on the same planet. They both feature humans. There will probably be fighting. But someone hankering for a great world war II movie isn't going to have that itch scratched by 300. They may enjoy the movie. It may be a story worth telling. But then don't dress it up as a world war II story.

I'm not sure about this. What about something like KOTOR? It takes place 4,000 years before the rise of the Empire, would you say it's not really Star Wars? Because KOTOR is definitely Star Wars.

Oh sure, but it's all the force and jedi and lightsabers and building a story around these overtly recognizable star wars symbols and mythology. My list above wasn't really exhaustive. I never played the games, but I am sure they felt incredibly familiar. The way these games/stories really blew up the powers of jedi (turning them from weird mystics with fantastic but constrained powers into superheroes) probably, more than anything, is an example of fan culture run amok (though I'm not sure if the jedi as superhero stems from episode I or the expanded universe prior to it) more than anything we've recently seen.

In a way, scaling back the power of the jedi is one of the most important things Episode VII did.


As to my larger point, though - we want star wars to be star wars. stripping these things from star wars just turns it into wars in the stars. Wanting to hear stories not revolving around this particularly eventful 100 year period of galactic history is fine, and I'm on board, but then it's essential that there be star wars connective tissue. If it's not going to be X-wings and skywalkers then it needs to be the force and jedi, or wookies and ewoks, or something.

And above all it should have the 'long time ago' and crawl introduction!!!!!

dimejinky99 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:However, I do think they should keep the "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" opening.

Now you're just fucking with me. It that aside its Disney and they are beyond precious about their property. The ONLY reason the crawl/no crawl story is out there is cos celebration is in a couple of weeks and they want to drum up ANY kind of PR buzz for R1.

We're being played. Do you Really think a Star Wars film won't have a crawl? Would they let a toy story film out with Woody? Or a Randy Newman (sounding) song?

They got us hook line sinker and boat with this. It's a total planted pr. Thing. Of course there'll be a crawl.

Right. Because Star Wars needs more hype.

And I would love to see a Star Wars movie without the crawl.

Strat wrote:

stip wrote:It adds a lot - even if it's not necessary for exposition purposes (though it is helpful) it is one of the things that helps establish that this is Star Wars - a piece of iconography that isn't character based and does not potentially constrain your storytelling.

I love you.

Do yo. Other idiots think this would take away from the movie?

I don't think HAVING the crawl takes away from anything. And I fully expect it will be there. I just don't think it needs to be there. AND I think by doing it here with this anthology film you're pretty much requiring it for all anthology films. And I think that's kind of a bummer. It's not necessary, in my opinion. It can be a great movie without it. I don't see it as necessary.

I also think it's a fun way to separate the saga films from the anthology films. I would be bothered by a saga film without the opening crawl.

stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:However, I do think they should keep the "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" opening.

why this, but not a crawl?

It's far more "iconic" than the crawl. And it still applies to all the stories. It's a much better way to tie everything together and create a continuity without being adherent to three paragraphs of floating text that shouldn't be necessary if you hire a fucking competent writer.

The crawl only exists as a gimmick. It's there to pay homage to the old afternoon matinee serials. Star Wars starts with Episode IV. You need the crawl because it serves as a device to fill you in on events since the previous episode.

Rogue One doesn't have a previous episode. So it seems kinda silly to have a crawl. The crawl was a cute little joke to begin with. It might have become iconic to fans but it wasn't ever meant to be anything more than a reference.

It just feels like the distinction between the crawl and the long time ago is somewhat arbitrary.

Although, tbh, I don't know how I'd feel about the crawl without the main title theme

stip wrote:It just feels like the distinction between the crawl and the long time ago is somewhat arbitrary.

Although, tbh, I don't know how I'd feel about the crawl without the main title theme

Both interesting points.

I definitely think if you're doing the crawl you have to have the same theme music.

And, yeah, the distinction is arbitrary, I suppose. It's just a preference. Either way, neither are necessary. Both will probably be there when the movie finally drops. None of it will matter if the movie sucks. And if it's good, it won't be BECAUSE of those things either.

durdencommatyler wrote: None of it will matter if the movie sucks. And if it's good, it won't be BECAUSE of those things either.

True

I just hope the crawl moves faster or they shorten it. I don't need a novel.

stip wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

stip wrote:It adds a lot - even if it's not necessary for exposition purposes (though it is helpful) it is one of the things that helps establish that this is Star Wars - a piece of iconography that isn't character based and does not potentially constrain your storytelling.

I dunno.
I mean, yeah its classic star wars iconography, but if Star Wars is going forward with its universe , its time to relax and change too...if its not needed im ok with no crawl at all...of course nobody in the right mind would do it, because fans.

Man, the fan culture is really, really fucking things up.

VG, this whole movie is an exercise in fan culture - more than Episode VII. They chose the safest possible story possible. It allegedly ends moments before A New Hope begins and tells a story whose ultimate conclusion is known to the entire audience prior to the start of the movie. An entire universe with thousands of years of history and this is what they pick? And you feel that iconic expository text that does not in any way, shape, or form impact the story you want to tell is' fan culture really, really fucking things up'

Well, yeah i mean..if they put the crawl just for the fans, just because the internet its going to explode in rage...i dont know.
All im saying is that if its not going to have a purpose, then its ok to ditch it.

So weird that people care so much about the opening crawl. It makes sense not to have it. This is the first one of these films to be coloring around the edges of the main "Episode" series. I don't expect the Han Solo or Boba Fett standalones to have a crawl either.

This is going to be great