Red Mosquito

Me too.

harmless wrote:Within the limits of what this song is (and those limits are... limited), Matt drums this with some enthusiasm. The rhythm isn't greatly inspired, but I can think of songs we all love whose rhythms are fairly standard and boring. It's not a deal-breaker.

He's pretty much doing the same thing he did in Got Some, fills and all. It's pretty uncreative from a pretty creative drummer.

harmless wrote:I'm at the point now where I want to like this, so I'm in danger of making excuses for it. But I don't think 'Matt doing his usual thing' is a valid criticism, especially considering other songs some of us like, which Matt also phoned in. Matt sometimes phones stuff in, that shouldn't be news to anybody at this point in time.

Absolutely. But two tracks in and MYM and LB could be any drummer.

Edit. With the exception of MYM 0:00-0:12

soundgarden writes more complex songs, so it makes sense they would require more complex drumming. I think Matt's more interesting with them too, and I vastly prefer Pearl Jam.

man, this sucks. I have to go to my inlaws all weekend, without internet access, and there is new music to talk about.

stip wrote:soundgarden writes more complex songs, so it makes sense they would require more complex drumming. I think Matt's more interesting with them too, and I vastly prefer Pearl Jam.

Just because Pearl Jam is less complex doesn't mean his drumming needs to be less interesting. Matt has played pretty interestingly and creatively with simple drumming music in PJ for a long time now, even Backspacer had him treading new ground. I hope this one isn't just completely phoned in all the way through now that he has Soundgarden as more of a creative outlet for his drumming.

that's true. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But it seems (to a non-drummer/musician so this could be totally wrong--sounds like it is) that there is less space for him to play around with in the context of a song like MYM or Lightning.

What's an example of a similar song where you really like his work?

His hi-hat licks weren't too bad, and his pre-chorus work is actually pretty good. He does get into the ride bell again during the chorus, so I have the feeling Matt is trying to push a more progressive direction with this album, but he does need to get more technical with his kick if he wants to achieve that.

WtOB? wrote:

harmless wrote:Within the limits of what this song is (and those limits are... limited), Matt drums this with some enthusiasm. The rhythm isn't greatly inspired, but I can think of songs we all love whose rhythms are fairly standard and boring. It's not a deal-breaker.

He's pretty much doing the same thing he did in Got Some, fills and all. It's pretty uncreative from a pretty creative drummer.

He's not a pretty creative drummer. At all. Soundgarden writes creatively structured songs which require him to keep up. So he does. But he always performs nothing more than what a song requires, even with Soundgarden. He's really not an imaginative drummer. What you need, with a band like PJ -- a band with a lot of open chords and jam sessions and lack of structure -- is a drummer who knows how to fill that space with interest. That's not Matt. The reason he sounds better with Soundgarden is that they don't give him that space. Their songs, structurally, are like well-oiled machines, more or less.

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:His hi-hat licks weren't too bad, and his pre-chorus work is actually pretty good. He does get into the ride bell again during the chorus, so I have the feeling Matt is trying to push a more progressive direction with this album, but he does need to get more technical with his kick if he wants to achieve that.

Yeah. Interestingly I was listening to Riot Act and was surprised to hear the occasional near-blast beat', where his kick is on all four beats, during Green Disease. Why he stopped doing that on that album I have no idea, because it makes every fast song more interesting.

LetMeSleep wrote:

harmless wrote:I'm at the point now where I want to like this, so I'm in danger of making excuses for it. But I don't think 'Matt doing his usual thing' is a valid criticism, especially considering other songs some of us like, which Matt also phoned in. Matt sometimes phones stuff in, that shouldn't be news to anybody at this point in time.

Absolutely. But two tracks in and MYM and LB could be any drummer.

Edit. With the exception of MYM 0:00-0:12

But I think you're heaping way too much praise on Matt's prior work. His work for PJ has always been generic.

stip wrote:that's true. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But it seems (to a non-drummer/musician so this could be totally wrong--sounds like it is) that there is less space for him to play around with in the context of a song like MYM or Lightning.

What's an example of a similar song where you really like his work?

Yeah, to be fair to him I don't think there's anything he can do with MYM, it's too fast to add anything else. But his approach to Lightning sounds the same as Got Some, he literally even does the same fill as he does in Got Some live.

I don't know, I can't think of a song similar to this one except Unthought Known, and I wouldn't use that as an example of a song where I "really like his work".

I guess I'm disappointed in the rhythm he plays on the toms when he first kicks in. It's very 'gems and rhinestones' and when that song came out, I remember thinking that the rhythm isn't very PJ-esque, more U2. Oh for a tom-based rhythm like the one on In My Tree.

I think both of these new songs are pretty cool on first listen. Nothing mind blowing, but enjoyable.

WtOB? wrote:

stip wrote:that's true. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But it seems (to a non-drummer/musician so this could be totally wrong--sounds like it is) that there is less space for him to play around with in the context of a song like MYM or Lightning.

What's an example of a similar song where you really like his work?

Yeah, to be fair to him I don't think there's anything he can do with MYM, it's too fast to add anything else. But his approach to Lightning sounds the same as Got Some, he literally even does the same fill as he does in Got Some live.

I don't know, I can't think of a song similar to this one except Unthought Known, and I wouldn't use that as an example of a song where I "really like his work".

But he uses the same fills all the time, in everything!

harmless wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:His hi-hat licks weren't too bad, and his pre-chorus work is actually pretty good. He does get into the ride bell again during the chorus, so I have the feeling Matt is trying to push a more progressive direction with this album, but he does need to get more technical with his kick if he wants to achieve that.

Yeah. Interestingly I was listening to Riot Act and was surprised to hear the occasional near-blast beat', where his kick is on all four beats, during Green Disease. Why he stopped doing that on that album I have no idea, because it makes every fast song more interesting.

Absolutely, I'd love to see him do some double stroke work on the kick. Some tom/kick/hh syncopation ala Danny Carey would be kind of cool too.

I really like MITS. In fact most of that album is pretty strong from Matt. Insig and Grievance, Cropduster and ghost all have interesting approaches to conventional rock 4/4. But He plays it pretty straight.

Strangely I heard Rival the other day and thought Dave A would kick that to heaven. Matt doesn't bounce. Listen to Matt play Rats. It's awful. And compare Even Flow.

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

harmless wrote:

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:His hi-hat licks weren't too bad, and his pre-chorus work is actually pretty good. He does get into the ride bell again during the chorus, so I have the feeling Matt is trying to push a more progressive direction with this album, but he does need to get more technical with his kick if he wants to achieve that.

Yeah. Interestingly I was listening to Riot Act and was surprised to hear the occasional near-blast beat', where his kick is on all four beats, during Green Disease. Why he stopped doing that on that album I have no idea, because it makes every fast song more interesting.

Absolutely, I'd love to see him do some double stroke work on the kick. Some tom/kick/hh syncopation ala Danny Carey would be kind of cool too.

For reasons we'll probably never know, Matt totally stopped being interesting at S/T. When the band did?

harmless wrote:

WtOB? wrote:

harmless wrote:Within the limits of what this song is (and those limits are... limited), Matt drums this with some enthusiasm. The rhythm isn't greatly inspired, but I can think of songs we all love whose rhythms are fairly standard and boring. It's not a deal-breaker.

He's pretty much doing the same thing he did in Got Some, fills and all. It's pretty uncreative from a pretty creative drummer.

He's not a pretty creative drummer. At all. Soundgarden writes creatively structured songs which require him to keep up. So he does. But he always performs nothing more than what a song requires, even with Soundgarden. He's really not an imaginative drummer. What you need, with a band like PJ -- a band with a lot of open chords and jam sessions and lack of structure -- is a drummer who knows how to fill that space with interest. That's not Matt. The reason he sounds better with Soundgarden is that they don't give him that space. Their songs, structurally, are like well-oiled machines, more or less.

I don't think that's very fair to him. He's great at making those strange time signatures in Soundgarden flow well. The drums in Head Down are just luscious.

Matt fills that space in PJ quite well, or has in the past. The little ride bell hits and tom roll that flow with the riff in Unemployable, the off-beat toms in Ghost, the snare shuffle he does for the whole song in Can't Keep, the way he helps create that off-kilter flow in Love Boat Captain, the way he tries to emulate the guitar ever so slightly with the toms in Insignificance in the verses. I could think of so many of these. He's doing things, he's not just playing a straight beat that any ol' drummer could do. But at the same time it only adds to the song, it doesn't detract or take focus off what's important. It's there for added flavour and nothing else. I happen to find these little added herbs and spices delicious. I don't think just any drummer could be as tasty as he can be with these simpler songs.

harmless wrote:

WtOB? wrote:

stip wrote:that's true. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But it seems (to a non-drummer/musician so this could be totally wrong--sounds like it is) that there is less space for him to play around with in the context of a song like MYM or Lightning.

What's an example of a similar song where you really like his work?

Yeah, to be fair to him I don't think there's anything he can do with MYM, it's too fast to add anything else. But his approach to Lightning sounds the same as Got Some, he literally even does the same fill as he does in Got Some live.

I don't know, I can't think of a song similar to this one except Unthought Known, and I wouldn't use that as an example of a song where I "really like his work".

But he uses the same fills all the time, in everything!

True. He has gotten pretty lazy with his fills live for a few years now. But he used to do different fills every night and they were fantastic.