Dark Matter: Official Album Thread

[mikejasond]

I don't know - there are songs that are exceptions, but very few pearl jam songs sound unequivocally better live for me. They sound different, they have energy, but they are an all together different beast. Binaural may be the one example where most of the songs are better live for me. But that's certainly an outlier.

The live versions of Dark Matter sound great. Great energy. Great concerts. They don't replace the studio versions for me. But almost no live songs do. They enhance. They recontextualize. Far more successfully than many of the recent tours.

I just think at some point (not necessarily recently, could be the last ten years, but it's certainly gotten worse) the band sounds overall kind of flat (both literally in pitch and also in delivery and sound) on a lot of songs, like they no longer sound like an INCREDIBLE live act, but a competent one, with an amazing catalog. On a lot of the dark matter songs the performance is ok but clearly worse than the album, and that never used to be true. If it was different, it was rarely worse. Some live versions were just incredible (Can think of some PHENOMENAL versions of Immortality). That is something they don't usually hit as much anymore. I mean they still sound pretty good, and SOMETIMES eddie sounds GREAT but often it just isn't true. There's definitely a downgrade from studio to live on these songs and the question is if Eddie will be able to hit the notes or stay on pitch lol but even Mike and Stone don't seem as good anymore at transferring the songs to a live setting.

[stip]

I mean I cannot tell you that your experience of their live sets is wrong, but the two concerts I saw in 22 and 23 were great - if not the best ones ever then as good as a typical prime pearl jam in their heydey. And I haven't seen them yet this tour, but these boots have been incredible. Different than how they would have sounded in 1998, but as good.

[Tj]

Last night in Seattle they sounded great . Better overall than 09 13 and 18. I think as good as 2000. The new song are great love with Upper Hand and Setting Sun really standing out. I'm not a Fan of RiverCross but it was good live a improvement over the Gigaton version

[RockPusher]

the guitar sound on the chorus of Scared of Fear. So good

also really love those fills matt plays at the end

incredible song

Thanks for reminding me- toward the end of Scared of Fear, Matt does these little drum phrases that end in kind of a hard thump, and hearing Leash the other day, Dave A was doing the same thing toward the end of that song. I knew I had heard that before. I wonder if it's one of those things that Watt suggested. Love it.

[RockPusher]

I don't know - there are songs that are exceptions, but very few pearl jam songs sound unequivocally better live for me. They sound different, they have energy, but they are an all together different beast. Binaural may be the one example where most of the songs are better live for me. But that's certainly an outlier.

The live versions of Dark Matter sound great. Great energy. Great concerts. They don't replace the studio versions for me. But almost no live songs do. They enhance. They recontextualize. Far more successfully than many of the recent tours.

I just think at some point (not necessarily recently, could be the last ten years, but it's certainly gotten worse) the band sounds overall kind of flat (both literally in pitch and also in delivery and sound) on a lot of songs, like they no longer sound like an INCREDIBLE live act, but a competent one, with an amazing catalog. On a lot of the dark matter songs the performance is ok but clearly worse than the album, and that never used to be true. If it was different, it was rarely worse. Some live versions were just incredible (Can think of some PHENOMENAL versions of Immortality). That is something they don't usually hit as much anymore. I mean they still sound pretty good, and SOMETIMES eddie sounds GREAT but often it just isn't true. There's definitely a downgrade from studio to live on these songs and the question is if Eddie will be able to hit the notes or stay on pitch lol but even Mike and Stone don't seem as good anymore at transferring the songs to a live setting.

Having recently gone to two shows, and also having watched the live stream of Las Vegas, I gotta disagree. They may not be as reliably transcendent live as they once were, but I just heard a 2000 boot from London on Sirius XM and damn if the shows this tour don't have higher marks in almost every category, in my opinion. Energy from that one was just weird and flat.

[stip]

you’re not supposed to say this, but i think 00 is not one of the better tours (comparitvely)

[oasisfan35]

you’re not supposed to say this, but i think 00 is not one of the better tours (comparitvely)

Ranking kills.

[spike]

can we get a Brendan O'Brien remix or something? The ones he did of all the previous albums sound decent. I don't get how they let this be the final product? How could nobody realize this was messed up?

Oh what short memory the RM message board has these days. Now we've come full circle back to wanting to get BoB to put some fixin' on it ? Trying to bring back fadeouts, toy pianos, and jangly feebly acoustic guitars ? Maybe some lasers?

They seem to look at recording as a chore in the last 15 years or so. Just hand off the songs to someone else to put the finishing touch on them.

BoB put the fixin' on Backspacer sure enough. And he put the fixin' on Lightning Bolt. Personally, I'm glad they found someone else to put the fixin' on the last two. The Gigaton fixin' is superb for any listening, including a highly focused listen. The Dark Matter fixin' is fine for a less than focused listen, in fact, in may even be better for the causal listener than all the other mentioned fixin' attempts. And the good news is, if we want an improved focused listening experience, we can put our own fixin' on the Dark Matter fixin' since it was superbly recorded and mixed with Atmos in mind.

Next thing RM will be clamoring for Dave A to return.

[liebzz]

Interesting that few list Vs. as their top Pearl Jam album yet there’s always some level of pining for that Dave A./BOB of yesteryear inclusion.

[Kevin Davis]

When did it stop that the live performances were just even better? Was it Backspacer?.

Yes.

I agree with virtually everything you've written over your last few posts, Mike -- I love Pearl Jam's studio records, and appreciate that they have a sonic depth that their live performances don't and won't, but I think almost all of their songs pre-Backspacer, at one time or another, have sounded better live. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

Backspacer was the first batch of new songs that they treated mostly as semi-rarities right out of the gate -- a few songs like "Got Some" and "The Fixer" and "Just Breathe" were played near-nightly, but most of them appeared only a few times even on the tours directly following the album. Lightning Bolt and Gigaton were similar. And since tours in general have been much shorter post-2006, they're not only not getting a chance to develop new songs over the course of a tour, but their performance schedule isn't concentrated enough for them get really tight and locked-in as a baseline standard.

This current tour does seem like a bit of a throwback to the days when the new songs were given places of prominence in the setlists, and they seem pretty well-rehearsed, which I think is exciting. But Eddie just isn't the singer he used to be, and while the rawer sound of the live performances is appealing compared to the gloss and compression of the record, there are also things in the live performances that make you long for the studio takes.

After a lot of hand-wringing over this during the PJ20/LB tour era, I've made my peace with what PJ is live now. But I definitely feel what you're saying.

[mikejasond]

When did it stop that the live performances were just even better? Was it Backspacer?.

Yes.

I agree with virtually everything you've written over your last few posts, Mike -- I love Pearl Jam's studio records, and appreciate that they have a sonic depth that their live performances don't and won't, but I think almost all of their songs pre-Backspacer, at one time or another, have sounded better live. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

Backspacer was the first batch of new songs that they treated mostly as semi-rarities right out of the gate -- a few songs like "Got Some" and "The Fixer" and "Just Breathe" were played near-nightly, but most of them appeared only a few times even on the tours directly following the album. Lightning Bolt and Gigaton were similar. And since tours in general have been much shorter post-2006, they're not only not getting a chance to develop new songs over the course of a tour, but their performance schedule isn't concentrated enough for them get really tight and locked-in as a baseline standard.

This current tour does seem like a bit of a throwback to the days when the new songs were given places of prominence in the setlists, and they seem pretty well-rehearsed, which I think is exciting. But Eddie just isn't the singer he used to be, and while the rawer sound of the live performances is appealing compared to the gloss and compression of the record, there are also things in the live performances that make you long for the studio takes.

After a lot of hand-wringing over this during the PJ20/LB tour era, I've made my peace with what PJ is live now. But I definitely feel what you're saying.

They actually DID do a lot of Lightning Bolt in the tour immediately following it, at least the 2013 one. I saw them at both Brooklyn shows, and they did 8 songs from LB the first night, and 7 songs the second. Of course, a lot of those were played both nights (The ones I never got were My Father's Son, Sleeping by Myself, or Getaway, but they played the rest of the album at at least one of the two days). And they did pretty good with it. By 2014 they had moved to more varied setlists, though, and those songs fell out.

But yeah....Eddie...he is still definitely a GOOD singer. I mean if you've never heard him before you will likely think he has a very good voice. I was born in 1992 and I didn't get into Pearl Jam until college, beyond knowing their hits from classic rock radio or Rock Band/Guitar Hero, so I never got to experience them live at their peak, but it still wows me to hear bootlegs from 2006 and before. I just wish they were able to capture that now. Eddie's voice is an obvious change, he doesn't have the ungodly power and stability he used to have. As I said, sometimes he sounds good, even great, but he used to be so so special in a way he no longer is. But even beyond Eddie, I feel like on a song-by-song basis they just sounded more inspired and tight back then. The songs sounded more like...the songs I guess. But live and with more energy. More color, or at least the RIGHT color. The Dark Matter songs are better in this regard, and perhaps on this it IS eddie that holds them back for the most part. Waiting for Stevie is nice live but there's often this slight discordance from a slightly flat Eddie that takes away just a bit. (At least on the one I heard yesterday). but stuff like Satan's Bed (posted some live vids in the specific song topic) it seems like the whole band is less inspired than they were 15 years ago.

[Kevin Davis]

I feel like Lightning Bolt was similar to Backspacer in that there were a few songs that were nightly staples ("MYM," "LB"), a few that were semi-regular, with the rest being pretty sporadic. But I could be misremembering. I am sure my memory is also colored by the fact that a few songs from LB that I really liked at the time ("MFS," "Infallible," "Swallowed Whole") really just never came together live.

But I don't disagree with anything you're saying about the way the performances have changed. Yes, some is Eddie's voice, some of it is the downtuning -- but there's also something else intangible that is harder to pin down. I personally think it's that they're just not playing together long enough, with a manageable enough repertoire, to get tight. Most of their best tours have a bit of a warm-up period -- eight to ten shows -- where things are still locking into place (think the first handful of shows in Europe 2000, or Australia 2003). Nowadays, those eight to ten shows are all there are before they take a break again. Understandable based on where they are in their life and what they want out of the touring experience, but IMO not surprising that they're not landing a sweet spot that historically has taken them a little time to find.

For what it's worth I've enjoyed what I've heard of the current tour. I'll probably pick up a few boots once all the shows have been played and I can sample through and nail down a couple favorites.

[joostone]

So LA came and went... And they didn't appear on Late Night television. There is still no official videoclip for any song. Are they going to promote this great record? The European shows are not selling great. And yet, there are almost no interviews in press over here. Do they actually care ?

[VinylGuy]

So LA came and went... And they didn't appear on Late Night television. There is still no official videoclip for any song. Are they going to promote this great record? The European shows are not selling great. And yet, there are almost no interviews in press over here. Do they actually ?

I was thinking of this today. Feels like PJ during Binaural or something like that.

Any other band would release another single now or go to jools holland or something like that but these guys they just don’t give a damn right

[RockPusher]

I think Pearl Jam is in a strange space where they are both relevant and irrelevant to the public in general. Bottle Rock was a perfect example. PJ was the top headliner. You could see Pearl Jam shirts everywhere during the event, and it was obvious many concertgoers were only there because of the band. Still, the preceding act, Maná, inarguably had a much stronger fan reaction, including fan singalongs reaching all the way to the back of the blankets. For contrast, from the front of the blankets, where I was, I couldn't hear a single Ed attempt at a singalong take hold. The applause also seemed tepid compared to that of Maná, though I've been told it was very strong up front. Most amazingly, there was a ton of space around us during Pearl Jam. Many concertgoers had left, and it certainly didn't feel packed at all.

Honestly, I feel much worse for My Morning Jacket. While Pearl Jam is *my jam*, MMJ put on an absolutely electrifying perfect set, and the sparse crowd acted as if elevator music was playing (even when the USC marching band came out!). I couldn't believe it. I still can't.

[stip]

they are like U2 - incredibly important if you care and easy to ignore if you dont. which is well and appropriate for this stage of their careers. its just very few major bands last long enough to see this play out

[Jorge]

I think Pearl Jam is in a strange space where they are both relevant and irrelevant to the public in general. Bottle Rock was a perfect example. PJ was the top headliner. You could see Pearl Jam shirts everywhere during the event, and it was obvious many concertgoers were only there because of the band. Still, the preceding act, Maná, inarguably had a much stronger fan reaction, including fan singalongs reaching all the way to the back of the blankets. For contrast, from the front of the blankets, where I was, I couldn't hear a single Ed attempt at a singalong take hold. The applause also seemed tepid compared to that of Maná, though I've been told it was very strong up front.

That is wild. Fuck, Maná suuuuucks

[Buby]

I think Pearl Jam is in a strange space where they are both relevant and irrelevant to the public in general. Bottle Rock was a perfect example. PJ was the top headliner. You could see Pearl Jam shirts everywhere during the event, and it was obvious many concertgoers were only there because of the band. Still, the preceding act, Maná, inarguably had a much stronger fan reaction, including fan singalongs reaching all the way to the back of the blankets. For contrast, from the front of the blankets, where I was, I couldn't hear a single Ed attempt at a singalong take hold. The applause also seemed tepid compared to that of Maná, though I've been told it was very strong up front.

That is wild. Fuck, Maná suuuuucks

You can keep Maná on your side of the fence forever.
Please.

Shame about MMJ, but pretty sure they know that festivals are a coin toss, not every festival will yield a Bonnaroo level reaction.
Their shows are a different ball game though, I've seen them 3 times now, and their crowd is super responsive.

[RockPusher]

I think Pearl Jam is in a strange space where they are both relevant and irrelevant to the public in general. Bottle Rock was a perfect example. PJ was the top headliner. You could see Pearl Jam shirts everywhere during the event, and it was obvious many concertgoers were only there because of the band. Still, the preceding act, Maná, inarguably had a much stronger fan reaction, including fan singalongs reaching all the way to the back of the blankets. For contrast, from the front of the blankets, where I was, I couldn't hear a single Ed attempt at a singalong take hold. The applause also seemed tepid compared to that of Maná, though I've been told it was very strong up front.

That is wild. Fuck, Maná suuuuucks

You can keep Maná on your side of the fence forever.
Please.

Shame about MMJ, but pretty sure they know that festivals are a coin toss, not every festival will yield a Bonnaroo level reaction.
Their shows are a different ball game though, I've seen them 3 times now, and their crowd is super responsive.

I need to go to a My Morning Jacket show!

[joostone]

they are like U2 - incredibly important if you care and easy to ignore if you dont. which is well and appropriate for this stage of their careers. its just very few major bands last long enough to see this play out

Yeah, But U2 always has sold-out shows. For the first time ever PJ is really not selling great on their EU leg. OK, it's mostly because of the high tickets prices, but still... London, Berlin and Barcelona are far far from being sold out. Check that 2nd night in Barca. It's the worst selling PJ show ever if I have to guess..