Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:shoehorned into a self-consciously 'big' ending.

I will call BS on this criticism forever and always. Ten is full of big endings. Vs is full of big endings. Big endings were a staple of early Pearl Jam, and it's obvious the band loves playing big endings when they play live. That is the JAM part of Pearl Jam.

Honestly, after Avocado, big endings were the thing I was missing most. I didn't realize that until I finally got a proper one or several on Gigaton. Then they went to town on Dark Matter, thank the heavens!

I've heard people say that the double-time ending on Upper Hand feels out of place or whatever, but if you listen to 70s hard rock, which is an absolutely HUGE influence on PJ, it is chock full of moments like that. Specifically, bands like The Who. What we are hearing on Dark Matter is the band having maximum fun in their sandbox, and I am 100% here for it!

big endings are an essential part of the pearl jam stew. At least my favorite flavor. And they always feel organic to me. I am glad to see them return. Honestly their absence was what always felt artificial - like they were editing their instincts. It's one of the things Dark matter absolutely got right, and why it feels so successfully live.

So, then would you call Dark Matter (the album) a "return to form" ?

Seems like that may be a more true statement than for any other album where it has been said.

digster wrote:Dark Matter definitely benefits from that approach not being a well they've gone back to that often. I don't think it works on every song, but it works on most, and something like Waiting For Stevie is improved by the fact that there haven't been 20 other rehashes of that throughout their career.

100%. I think it's a great song on the merits, but it is especially powerful for how long it's been since they wrote a song like that.

hlniv wrote:

stip wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:shoehorned into a self-consciously 'big' ending.

I will call BS on this criticism forever and always. Ten is full of big endings. Vs is full of big endings. Big endings were a staple of early Pearl Jam, and it's obvious the band loves playing big endings when they play live. That is the JAM part of Pearl Jam.

Honestly, after Avocado, big endings were the thing I was missing most. I didn't realize that until I finally got a proper one or several on Gigaton. Then they went to town on Dark Matter, thank the heavens!

I've heard people say that the double-time ending on Upper Hand feels out of place or whatever, but if you listen to 70s hard rock, which is an absolutely HUGE influence on PJ, it is chock full of moments like that. Specifically, bands like The Who. What we are hearing on Dark Matter is the band having maximum fun in their sandbox, and I am 100% here for it!

big endings are an essential part of the pearl jam stew. At least my favorite flavor. And they always feel organic to me. I am glad to see them return. Honestly their absence was what always felt artificial - like they were editing their instincts. It's one of the things Dark matter absolutely got right, and why it feels so successfully live.

So, then would you call Dark Matter (the album) a "return to form" ?

Seems like that may be a more true statement than for any other album where it has been said.

It's a return to A form, in that it is definitely a return to a style of song writing, in studio performing, and even the types of songs they are leaning into. It manages to feel familiar without feeling redundant, which is to its credit, and has that 'welcome home' vibe which is so powerful to a fan like myself with my history and interests in the band.

But pearl jam has been at it for 30 years and 12 albums and they have gone through stages. Something like No Code or Binaural has always felt like a deviation from the type of band I personally want Pearl Jam to be, but after 20+ years those aren't deviations any more, especially as these are spaces they also inhabited for a long time. They are an element of Pearl Jam's identity they can lean into or away from, that will be more or less prominent in what they are doing. But neither one is THE form.

stip wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:shoehorned into a self-consciously 'big' ending.

I will call BS on this criticism forever and always. Ten is full of big endings. Vs is full of big endings. Big endings were a staple of early Pearl Jam, and it's obvious the band loves playing big endings when they play live. That is the JAM part of Pearl Jam.

Honestly, after Avocado, big endings were the thing I was missing most. I didn't realize that until I finally got a proper one or several on Gigaton. Then they went to town on Dark Matter, thank the heavens!

I've heard people say that the double-time ending on Upper Hand feels out of place or whatever, but if you listen to 70s hard rock, which is an absolutely HUGE influence on PJ, it is chock full of moments like that. Specifically, bands like The Who. What we are hearing on Dark Matter is the band having maximum fun in their sandbox, and I am 100% here for it!

big endings are an essential part of the pearl jam stew. At least my favorite flavor. And they always feel organic to me. I am glad to see them return. Honestly their absence was what always felt artificial - like they were editing their instincts. It's one of the things Dark matter absolutely got right, and why it feels so successfully live.

Gigaton has several big endings, several of which have really interesting twists and turns they've rarely explored on other albums.

Monkey_Driven wrote:

stip wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:shoehorned into a self-consciously 'big' ending.

I will call BS on this criticism forever and always. Ten is full of big endings. Vs is full of big endings. Big endings were a staple of early Pearl Jam, and it's obvious the band loves playing big endings when they play live. That is the JAM part of Pearl Jam.

Honestly, after Avocado, big endings were the thing I was missing most. I didn't realize that until I finally got a proper one or several on Gigaton. Then they went to town on Dark Matter, thank the heavens!

I've heard people say that the double-time ending on Upper Hand feels out of place or whatever, but if you listen to 70s hard rock, which is an absolutely HUGE influence on PJ, it is chock full of moments like that. Specifically, bands like The Who. What we are hearing on Dark Matter is the band having maximum fun in their sandbox, and I am 100% here for it!

big endings are an essential part of the pearl jam stew. At least my favorite flavor. And they always feel organic to me. I am glad to see them return. Honestly their absence was what always felt artificial - like they were editing their instincts. It's one of the things Dark matter absolutely got right, and why it feels so successfully live.

Gigaton has several big endings, several of which have really interesting twists and turns they've rarely explored on other albums.

yup

I've been listening to a lot of Counting Crows today and I'm reminded that they love a big, indulgent ending

RockPusher wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

stip wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:shoehorned into a self-consciously 'big' ending.

I will call BS on this criticism forever and always. Ten is full of big endings. Vs is full of big endings. Big endings were a staple of early Pearl Jam, and it's obvious the band loves playing big endings when they play live. That is the JAM part of Pearl Jam.

Honestly, after Avocado, big endings were the thing I was missing most. I didn't realize that until I finally got a proper one or several on Gigaton. Then they went to town on Dark Matter, thank the heavens!

I've heard people say that the double-time ending on Upper Hand feels out of place or whatever, but if you listen to 70s hard rock, which is an absolutely HUGE influence on PJ, it is chock full of moments like that. Specifically, bands like The Who. What we are hearing on Dark Matter is the band having maximum fun in their sandbox, and I am 100% here for it!

big endings are an essential part of the pearl jam stew. At least my favorite flavor. And they always feel organic to me. I am glad to see them return. Honestly their absence was what always felt artificial - like they were editing their instincts. It's one of the things Dark matter absolutely got right, and why it feels so successfully live.

Gigaton has several big endings, several of which have really interesting twists and turns they've rarely explored on other albums.

yup

Dance, QE, and Retrograde in particular

stip wrote:

hlniv wrote:

stip wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:shoehorned into a self-consciously 'big' ending.

I will call BS on this criticism forever and always. Ten is full of big endings. Vs is full of big endings. Big endings were a staple of early Pearl Jam, and it's obvious the band loves playing big endings when they play live. That is the JAM part of Pearl Jam.

Honestly, after Avocado, big endings were the thing I was missing most. I didn't realize that until I finally got a proper one or several on Gigaton. Then they went to town on Dark Matter, thank the heavens!

I've heard people say that the double-time ending on Upper Hand feels out of place or whatever, but if you listen to 70s hard rock, which is an absolutely HUGE influence on PJ, it is chock full of moments like that. Specifically, bands like The Who. What we are hearing on Dark Matter is the band having maximum fun in their sandbox, and I am 100% here for it!

big endings are an essential part of the pearl jam stew. At least my favorite flavor. And they always feel organic to me. I am glad to see them return. Honestly their absence was what always felt artificial - like they were editing their instincts. It's one of the things Dark matter absolutely got right, and why it feels so successfully live.

So, then would you call Dark Matter (the album) a "return to form" ?

Seems like that may be a more true statement than for any other album where it has been said.

It's a return to A form, in that it is definitely a return to a style of song writing, in studio performing, and even the types of songs they are leaning into. It manages to feel familiar without feeling redundant, which is to its credit, and has that 'welcome home' vibe which is so powerful to a fan like myself with my history and interests in the band.

But pearl jam has been at it for 30 years and 12 albums and they have gone through stages. Something like No Code or Binaural has always felt like a deviation from the type of band I personally want Pearl Jam to be, but after 20+ years those aren't deviations any more, especially as these are spaces they also inhabited for a long time. They are an element of Pearl Jam's identity they can lean into or away from, that will be more or less prominent in what they are doing. But neither one is THE form.

Pearl Jam Forms

1. Anthemic/Soaring/Big Endings - Ten, Vs, Yield, Dark Matter
2. Experimental/Introspective - Vitalogy, No Code, Binaural, Riot Act, Gigaton
3. Angry/Rough - Vs, Vitalogy, Yield
4. Pop/Spritzy - Backspacer, Lightning Bolt, Dark Matter

I think these 4 cover almost the entire catalog, you could place any song... into one of these, two at most.

I enjoy all forms personally.

I don't know what "form" to place on Avocado - it's like they tried a little bit of everything. Yield is also tough to place, and is a little bit of all of these

I would put Avocado in the Angry tier, its almost like an adult Vs.

Being honest, I've stopped listening to this regularly. Still have Wont Tell and DM on regular rotation but the rest are fading into Gigaton territory.

hlniv wrote:

stip wrote:

hlniv wrote:

stip wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:shoehorned into a self-consciously 'big' ending.

I will call BS on this criticism forever and always. Ten is full of big endings. Vs is full of big endings. Big endings were a staple of early Pearl Jam, and it's obvious the band loves playing big endings when they play live. That is the JAM part of Pearl Jam.

Honestly, after Avocado, big endings were the thing I was missing most. I didn't realize that until I finally got a proper one or several on Gigaton. Then they went to town on Dark Matter, thank the heavens!

I've heard people say that the double-time ending on Upper Hand feels out of place or whatever, but if you listen to 70s hard rock, which is an absolutely HUGE influence on PJ, it is chock full of moments like that. Specifically, bands like The Who. What we are hearing on Dark Matter is the band having maximum fun in their sandbox, and I am 100% here for it!

big endings are an essential part of the pearl jam stew. At least my favorite flavor. And they always feel organic to me. I am glad to see them return. Honestly their absence was what always felt artificial - like they were editing their instincts. It's one of the things Dark matter absolutely got right, and why it feels so successfully live.

So, then would you call Dark Matter (the album) a "return to form" ?

Seems like that may be a more true statement than for any other album where it has been said.

It's a return to A form, in that it is definitely a return to a style of song writing, in studio performing, and even the types of songs they are leaning into. It manages to feel familiar without feeling redundant, which is to its credit, and has that 'welcome home' vibe which is so powerful to a fan like myself with my history and interests in the band.

But pearl jam has been at it for 30 years and 12 albums and they have gone through stages. Something like No Code or Binaural has always felt like a deviation from the type of band I personally want Pearl Jam to be, but after 20+ years those aren't deviations any more, especially as these are spaces they also inhabited for a long time. They are an element of Pearl Jam's identity they can lean into or away from, that will be more or less prominent in what they are doing. But neither one is THE form.

Pearl Jam Forms

1. Anthemic/Soaring/Big Endings - Ten, Vs, Yield, Dark Matter
2. Experimental/Introspective - Vitalogy, No Code, Binaural, Riot Act, Gigaton
3. Angry/Rough - Vs, Vitalogy, Yield
4. Pop/Spritzy - Backspacer, Lightning Bolt, Dark Matter

I think these 4 cover almost the entire catalog, you could place any song... into one of these, two at most.

I enjoy all forms personally.

I don't know what "form" to place on Avocado - it's like they tried a little bit of everything. Yield is also tough to place, and is a little bit of all of these

I think your categories make sense (except perhaps spritzy, which is not the same thing as pop - it's mostly a bullshit RM term that just means 'pearl jam songs after 2003 or possibly 2006 that I don't like'), but I don't see how Yield is angry or rough. Two or three songs, maybe, but so much of that album is clean, gentle, reflective, and all albums have songs that span categories.

In your typology if I had to place each album somewhere once and only once I'd go with the following


Anthemic: Ten, Yield, Dark Matter
Introspective: No Code, Binaural, Riot Act, Gigaton
Angry: Vs, Vitalogy, S/T
'Poppy': Backspacer, Lightning Bolt

Monkey_Driven wrote:

hlniv wrote:Let's just all be glad there has been a solid course reversal after the Backspacer->Lightning Bolt era, which took like 10 years to get through.

Also I'm enjoying the boots from this tour more than any since the '06 tour

Amen.

Dark Matter sounds a lot like Lightning Bolt though

epilogue wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

hlniv wrote:Let's just all be glad there has been a solid course reversal after the Backspacer->Lightning Bolt era, which took like 10 years to get through.

Also I'm enjoying the boots from this tour more than any since the '06 tour

Amen.

Dark Matter sounds a lot like Lightning Bolt though

Except it doesn't. Like, not at all. Even Something Special has way more life in it than most of the songs on LB.

epilogue wrote:

Monkey_Driven wrote:

hlniv wrote:Let's just all be glad there has been a solid course reversal after the Backspacer->Lightning Bolt era, which took like 10 years to get through.

Also I'm enjoying the boots from this tour more than any since the '06 tour

Amen.

Dark Matter sounds a lot like Lightning Bolt though

I agree with you a lot, but just can't on this one.

I love lightning bolt so that comparison doesnt make me defensive, but i dont hear it. can you say more?

thematically, sure

A lot of the songs on Dark Matter remind me of songs on Lightning Bolt. This isn't a knock by the way. I happen to like Lightning Bolt quite a bit.

Dark Matter feels like a finished painting made from LB sketches.

"Sounds like" is perhaps poor phrasing. The songs on DM have a lot in common with those LB songs. There's shared DNA. DM has more in common with/reminds me of LB more than say Yield.

Pearl Jam began a sonic project on their self titled album and Dark Matter feels like the fully realized conclusion of that project. Which is not to say it's the last time we'll hear it from them. Just that they hit the mark, dead center.

DM sounds more like BS/LB than Gigaton does (Retrograde side). Gigaton is starting to feel like an outlier. Sort of the No Code of the modern PJ sonic project.

i hear more of a shared lineage with lightning bolt than gigaton. Im with you. But if I would also trace lightning bolt to yield as well. Gigaton is part of a different trajectory

Ten - Vs - Yield - S/T - Backspacer - Lbolt - Dark Matter
Vitalogy - No Code - Binaural - Riot Act - Gigaton

if i had to boil it down to two. there are lots of ways to slice the catalog

I think the way folks are describing and categorizing Gigaton is in response to Dark Matter. Outside of say Dance of the Clairvoyants there’s no much new ground covered until you really dig into the details. It’s a pretty straightforward Pearl Jam album.