Red Mosquito

but it is on the gentler, more introspective and introverted side of the spectrum. it questions more than it shares its answers

liebzz wrote:I think the way folks are describing and categorizing Gigaton is in response to Dark Matter. Outside of say Dance of the Clairvoyants there’s no much new ground covered until you really dig into the details. It’s a pretty straightforward Pearl Jam album.

i think you could argue that alright, river cross, and sevenoclock were also atypical. but most of their albums have 3-4 songs you can say that about

stip wrote:

liebzz wrote:I think the way folks are describing and categorizing Gigaton is in response to Dark Matter. Outside of say Dance of the Clairvoyants there’s no much new ground covered until you really dig into the details. It’s a pretty straightforward Pearl Jam album.

i think you could argue that alright, river cross, and sevenoclock were also atypical. but most of their albums have 3-4 songs you can say that about

the longest part of 'who ever said' is the bridge, i dunno how often that happens. but i kinda get it, there's a stone song, jeff song, ev acoustic, weird matt song, etc. DM is much more a full band effort

I don’t really hear LB on these songs. Maybe in some moments of the production because it’s polished and “shiny” but Vs. also had that approach.

There are song structures, guitar tones , drums sounds etc that reminds me more of that album and craves way to a new sound than something that reminds me of LB, a record I remember to be very lazy and straightforward in that sense.

I also happen to hate how it sounds so maybe there is that.

I don't know, I think there's some comparisons to be made between the BS/LB side of the catalog and Dark Matter, provided you're able to put aside your feelings on how successful they are. BS and LB both seem to me to be attempts to write accessible, more tightly-wounded rock songs with a poppier sheen both in the songwriting and production choices. I think on paper that's a pretty fair description of what they're trying to do (and I'd say, succeeded) with Dark Matter. 

I don't think the comparison makes perfect sense (there's a lot more instrumental outros on Dark Matter, for example), but I can certainly see where the connecting thread is. Before the album came out, a critic described Dark Matter as being something like "Yield meets Backspacer," and overall I think that's a pretty astute way to describe it. You have the band musicianship of the former coupled with the songwriting intent (if not exact approach) of the latter.

while i do understand with the idea of accesible, i could think the same of Vs for example.
And the approach of these sessions seem very similar to that album too. Thats why it rings closer to that one instead of LB or Backspacer. Also, like you say, musically they are not interested in ¨cutting the fat¨ in DM and very going for it at pretty much every song.

VinylGuy wrote:while i do understand with the idea of accesible, i could think the same of Vs for example.
And the approach of these sessions seem very similar to that album too. Thats why it rings closer to that one instead of LB or Backspacer. Also, like you say, musically they are not interested in ¨cutting the fat¨ in DM and very going for it at pretty much every song.

The fat’s where the flavor’s at. I hope they realize this now.

liebzz wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:while i do understand with the idea of accesible, i could think the same of Vs for example.
And the approach of these sessions seem very similar to that album too. Thats why it rings closer to that one instead of LB or Backspacer. Also, like you say, musically they are not interested in ¨cutting the fat¨ in DM and very going for it at pretty much every song.

The fat’s where the flavor’s at. I hope they realize this now.

agreed yeah. It for the best that Brendan is out. Jeff kinda realized this with Retrograde and the outro and saying Brendan would have ask us to cut that.

VinylGuy wrote:while i do understand with the idea of accesible, i could think the same of Vs for example.
And the approach of these sessions seem very similar to that album too. Thats why it rings closer to that one instead of LB or Backspacer. Also, like you say, musically they are not interested in ¨cutting the fat¨ in DM and very going for it at pretty much every song.

Sure, I don't think it's a one-to-one comparison, and when I say Dark Matter is reminscient of BS and LB it doesn't mean it's only reminiscent of those albums. But I think the shared DNA is certainly there, which seemed to be the point Joey was getting at.

yeah, i dont really see it. Maybe in the production? but the songwriting is very very different.

digster wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:while i do understand with the idea of accesible, i could think the same of Vs for example.
And the approach of these sessions seem very similar to that album too. Thats why it rings closer to that one instead of LB or Backspacer. Also, like you say, musically they are not interested in ¨cutting the fat¨ in DM and very going for it at pretty much every song.

Sure, I don't think it's a one-to-one comparison, and when I say Dark Matter is reminscient of BS and LB it doesn't mean it's only reminiscent of those albums. But I think the shared DNA is certainly there, which seemed to be the point Joey was getting at.

Digster gets it

epilogue wrote:Pearl Jam began a sonic project on their self titled album and Dark Matter feels like the fully realized conclusion of that project.

I think that on the self-titled record, they began to approach songwriting on a professional level. They started to think about “what would make this song interesting to a casual observer? What would put it over the top? What might bring people in?” For the first time, the songs aren’t coming purely out of inspiration, self-expression, or exploration. They’re being constructed with an ambition of purpose.

And I think this probably felt invigorating to them, because the last two records had been a bit listless.

Binaural, whether you like it or not, was the result of a project that failed to fully manifest. They were going to reinvent themselves for the 21st century, sonically and structurally, and they ran into frustrations (including, importantly, writer’s block).

Riot Act, for all its lush sonics and honest introspection, is the sound of very heavy lifting. Perseverance, not pleasure. Pain is being worked through. And in the post-9/11 world, it seemed like maybe the band or Ed suddenly realized that the anti-fame stance could be a double edged sword: when you really wanted to speak out about something….no one might be listening.

So it probably felt re-energizing to be working together, really crafting songs with the audience’s reaction in mind. But ST didn’t quite capture people the way they hoped (they were new to this and, frankly, the timing was wrong). So they tried to be more fun on the next record. And then they tried to sound like Pearl Jam on the next one after that. But always with that same purposeful-construction attitude in place.

The point is, by the time you hit gigaton they had been thinking about how to craft songs for listener engagement for 3 albums running. And while that record isn’t really trying to do that, those lessons stay with you.

If anything, I think these last two records gain strength from having learned those lessons, but not being driven by the same insecurities. Gigaton is not a pick-me album, and it is not a purposefully constructed record. It is full of inspiration-driven moments and quirks. Dark Matter might feel like a pick-me album to some, because it is big and bombastic and full of anthems…but it’s really not. It goes big because it is having fun going big. It goes there instinctively, energetically, and not because it’s scared that you’re about to hit the skip button.

I totally agree with McParadigm

DM feels to me super close to Vs not only on how they approach the sessions but also in what happens with the music. Its carrying them more than in LB for sure.

Gigaton was a different beast, a very different moment too.

stip wrote:
I think your categories make sense (except perhaps spritzy, which is not the same thing as pop - it's mostly a bullshit RM term that just means 'pearl jam songs after 2003 or possibly 2006 that I don't like')

2nd definition fits quite Backspacer and Lightning Bolt nicely i think, and conjures the nature of "pop" music to me. Doesn't have to be negative.

English
Adjective
spritzy (comparative spritzier, superlative spritziest)

1. Alternative form of spritzig (“of wine: lightly sparkling”)
2. Light and effervescent.

McParadigm nailed it - agree 100 percent

McParadigm wrote:

epilogue wrote:Pearl Jam began a sonic project on their self titled album and Dark Matter feels like the fully realized conclusion of that project.

I think that on the self-titled record, they began to approach songwriting on a professional level. They started to think about “what would make this song interesting to a casual observer? What would put it over the top? What might bring people in?” For the first time, the songs aren’t coming purely out of inspiration, self-expression, or exploration. They’re being constructed with an ambition of purpose.

And I think this probably felt invigorating to them, because the last two records had been a bit listless.

Binaural, whether you like it or not, was the result of a project that failed to fully manifest. They were going to reinvent themselves for the 21st century, sonically and structurally, and they ran into frustrations (including, importantly, writer’s block).

Riot Act, for all its lush sonics and honest introspection, is the sound of very heavy lifting. Perseverance, not pleasure. Pain is being worked through. And in the post-9/11 world, it seemed like maybe the band or Ed suddenly realized that the anti-fame stance could be a double edged sword: when you really wanted to speak out about something….no one might be listening.

So it probably felt re-energizing to be working together, really crafting songs with the audience’s reaction in mind. But ST didn’t quite capture people the way they hoped (they were new to this and, frankly, the timing was wrong). So they tried to be more fun on the next record. And then they tried to sound like Pearl Jam on the next one after that. But always with that same purposeful-construction attitude in place.

The point is, by the time you hit gigaton they had been thinking about how to craft songs for listener engagement for 3 albums running. And while that record isn’t really trying to do that, those lessons stay with you.

If anything, I think these last two records gain strength from having learned those lessons, but not being driven by the same insecurities. Gigaton is not a pick-me album, and it is not a purposefully constructed record. It is full of inspiration-driven moments and quirks. Dark Matter might feel like a pick-me album to some, because it is big and bombastic and full of anthems…but it’s really not. It goes big because it is having fun going big. It goes there instinctively, energetically, and not because it’s scared that you’re about to hit the skip button.

This a much better way to say it than PRAMG, which officially ended with Gigaton. Effectively the same point though, in terms of how S/T was conceived and ultimately led to Backspacer, the Target ad, the return of BoB, NFL/MLB song placements, etc. Lightning Bolt was their last grasp at this approach, which was going nowhere, and consisted mostly of leftovers and Ed solo songs.

The last two albums have been a welcome shift. In 2018, I had accepted the fact that Pearl Jam would be mostly a nostalgic live act for the rest of their days. Amazing that these last two records exist, actually, and a testament to why we all loved them in the first place.

Im very happy with them ditching Brendan. I just finished his interview with Beato, and i forgot how integral he was for so many amazing 90s albums. He worked in probably my favorites album from those years, and yet his final work with Pj, Cornell and other artists seem to be pretty awful.

i said it before but i would love to actually know why the band decided to ditch him in 2018 and take another turn, one im so happy to get.

the reason could be as mundane as they just wanted to try working with someone else to see what happens

digster wrote:I don't know, I think there's some comparisons to be made between the BS/LB side of the catalog and Dark Matter, provided you're able to put aside your feelings on how successful they are. BS and LB both seem to me to be attempts to write accessible, more tightly-wounded rock songs with a poppier sheen both in the songwriting and production choices. I think on paper that's a pretty fair description of what they're trying to do (and I'd say, succeeded) with Dark Matter. 

I don't think the comparison makes perfect sense (there's a lot more instrumental outros on Dark Matter, for example), but I can certainly see where the connecting thread is. Before the album came out, a critic described Dark Matter as being something like "Yield meets Backspacer," and overall I think that's a pretty astute way to describe it. You have the band musicianship of the former coupled with the songwriting intent (if not exact approach) of the latter.

When you put it like that, I can pick up what you're putting down.

McParadigm wrote:

epilogue wrote:Pearl Jam began a sonic project on their self titled album and Dark Matter feels like the fully realized conclusion of that project.

I think that on the self-titled record, they began to approach songwriting on a professional level. They started to think about “what would make this song interesting to a casual observer? What would put it over the top? What might bring people in?” For the first time, the songs aren’t coming purely out of inspiration, self-expression, or exploration. They’re being constructed with an ambition of purpose.

And I think this probably felt invigorating to them, because the last two records had been a bit listless.

Binaural, whether you like it or not, was the result of a project that failed to fully manifest. They were going to reinvent themselves for the 21st century, sonically and structurally, and they ran into frustrations (including, importantly, writer’s block).

Riot Act, for all its lush sonics and honest introspection, is the sound of very heavy lifting. Perseverance, not pleasure. Pain is being worked through. And in the post-9/11 world, it seemed like maybe the band or Ed suddenly realized that the anti-fame stance could be a double edged sword: when you really wanted to speak out about something….no one might be listening.

So it probably felt re-energizing to be working together, really crafting songs with the audience’s reaction in mind. But ST didn’t quite capture people the way they hoped (they were new to this and, frankly, the timing was wrong). So they tried to be more fun on the next record. And then they tried to sound like Pearl Jam on the next one after that. But always with that same purposeful-construction attitude in place.

The point is, by the time you hit gigaton they had been thinking about how to craft songs for listener engagement for 3 albums running. And while that record isn’t really trying to do that, those lessons stay with you.

If anything, I think these last two records gain strength from having learned those lessons, but not being driven by the same insecurities. Gigaton is not a pick-me album, and it is not a purposefully constructed record. It is full of inspiration-driven moments and quirks. Dark Matter might feel like a pick-me album to some, because it is big and bombastic and full of anthems…but it’s really not. It goes big because it is having fun going big. It goes there instinctively, energetically, and not because it’s scared that you’re about to hit the skip button.

I think this is a great post.

Though I think Backspacer does seem like they are having fun with it too. It's one of the reasons I like The Fixer as a single much more than a song like Mind Your Manners or Dark Matter. The Fixer is corny but it embraces it and has fun with it and sounds more authentic than those other songs to me. At first I hated it, but over time learned to appreciate it (and the whole album) for what it is.