Red Mosquito

i have not had any problem with the volume, which I am using as confirmation of hearing loss and justification to put off getting tested until my next physical, where i can just submit Dark Matter and my Spotify volume settings as evidence

Without adjusting any settings, play SoF. Listen however long you want, but then immediately after play Hell Is Near from the new St Vincent record. Again, don't adjust anything between songs.

epilogue wrote:Without adjusting any settings, play SoF. Listen however long you want, but then immediately after play Hell Is Near from the new St Vincent record. Again, didn't adjust anything between songs.

Adding insult to injury, Annie just went ahead and built the damn studio that captured most of the new album's sound.

mattyv1908 wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

epilogue wrote:

RockPusher wrote:

Strat wrote:And we needed more people shitting on it while others were enjoying it!

Because it's better to be upset than happy!

I genuinely like this album (it's really strong and moving on so many levels) but I also held back posting about it a lot during that initial launch (other than outward praise of the things that I love about it) because I wasn't loving it to the same degree that others were and I didn't want my thoughts to be taken as yucking anyone's yum. I'm blown away how respectful RM was overall during that initial phase. I don't remember ever seeing that from the community at large before. It was really cool and helped me enjoy the album even more.

i kinda feel that happened because the album was praised and the shitters kinda had to move on.

That's definitely one way to put it.

I'm still incredibly mixed on this album. I hear and enjoy a lot of what others have previously posted about. I also hear and hate things that really prohibit me from returning to the album for closer listening.

It'll probably go down as the PJ album about which I am the most conflicted. Some aspects are really terrific, others are really atrocious; there is virtually no middle ground to be found anywhere in these songs.

Mostly I just accept that a lot of people don't care about some of the things I do.

I think this is somewhere similar to where I’m at with this record. Was at both Seattle shows a couple weeks back and for example they played a significant portion of the album live both nights. Waiting for Stevie sounded good, and fit well within the set context (late main set pre encore). It made me understand some of its high praise that some here are giving it.

Last night Breath came on randomly while on a quick drive. I immediately followed it up with Waiting for Stevie, given the comparisons to the cathartic nature and evocative lyrical content to go along with similar song construction.

It sounded terrible in comparison. Not the song itself, but the aural attributes of the recording itself made it feel small and less powerful in comparison.

It may not reach Breath level for me, but if these two songs coexisted on a set list I wouldn’t feel that way about Waiting for Stevie. It would hold its own.

It’s a shame how these songs were treated with regards to their recording, mixing and mastering.

I do agree with this, the sound of this album compared to the early albums up through Yield...it is just a night and day difference. The songs are some of the best, and even with the production, this album is still one of my favorite ones....but the production is definitely a weak point and I RARELY notice these things. These songs don't sound as good as they should. I'd LOVE this album to have the production of a No Code or a Yield. Where the vocals just stand out and sound great, the band sounds great, etc, this album you can hear the production, it doesn't sound raw, eddie's vocals are not high enough in the mix, the band's volume is wonky...etc.

The saddest part though is that this would still be salvageable, but this is the first time the live performances can't save it. I am not a big fan of Binaural or Riot Act but the live performances of those songs completely elevate it - Self/Titled I do like but live it was even better. Dark Matter, due to the band's current limitations, sadly cannot soar like it should. 20 years ago, even if the album sounded exactly the same, we could have got live tour versions that made the songs what they should have been, or even better. But now we have a limited live sound and an over-produced over-saturated studio sound

That said, I still really like the album. It's just over time Im realizing it had potential to be even MORE. It's still their best since maybe the 90s, give or take Avocado

Buby wrote:

epilogue wrote:Without adjusting any settings, play SoF. Listen however long you want, but then immediately after play Hell Is Near from the new St Vincent record. Again, didn't adjust anything between songs.

Adding insult to injury, Annie just went ahead and built the damn studio that captured most of the new album's sound.

She should produce/engineer PJ's next record.

I have no issues with the production of Dark Matter.

I did the test with that St. Vincent song. I don't hear a difference sonically but they are two different types of rock songs and make for a difficult comparison.

blueviper wrote:I have no issues with the production of Dark Matter.

I did the test with that St. Vincent song. I don't hear a difference sonically but they are two different types of rock songs and make for a difficult comparison.

You didn't notice any difference in volume?

You're right, the songs themselves aren't comparable at all in terms of style and composition. The experiment is about sonics not styles, if that makes sense.

epilogue wrote:

blueviper wrote:I have no issues with the production of Dark Matter.

I did the test with that St. Vincent song. I don't hear a difference sonically but they are two different types of rock songs and make for a difficult comparison.

You didn't notice any difference in volume?

You're right, the songs themselves are comparable at all in terms of style and composition. The experiment is about sonics not styles, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I mean the St. Vincent was a bit lower, but it feels like that song warrants the lower volume. They aren't chugging guitars like in Scared of Fear.

I'll add it's a lovely song.

blueviper wrote:

epilogue wrote:

blueviper wrote:I have no issues with the production of Dark Matter.

I did the test with that St. Vincent song. I don't hear a difference sonically but they are two different types of rock songs and make for a difficult comparison.

You didn't notice any difference in volume?

You're right, the songs themselves are comparable at all in terms of style and composition. The experiment is about sonics not styles, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I mean the St. Vincent was a bit lower, but it feels like that song warrants the lower volume. They aren't chugging guitars like in Scared of Fear.

I don't find that SoF is really any louder overall, when her vocal comes in above the instrumentation it is set out front and above (I know, totally technical) but not miles away from the guitar found in SoF BUT the latter is far more harsh, separation to the point of pain. The mix for SoF is indeed atrocious though I have a feeling this is trag's attempted endeavor.

This was a good exercise, I kinda hated it but there is good in that I never have to listen to Scared of Fear again.

epilogue wrote:Without adjusting any settings, play SoF. Listen however long you want, but then immediately after play Hell Is Near from the new St Vincent record. Again, don't adjust anything between songs.

thats a cool song. i need to get caught up on her. last stuff I heard was masseducation

she seems as loud, if not louder. what am I listening for/was I supposed to hear? the seperation?

stip wrote:

epilogue wrote:Without adjusting any settings, play SoF. Listen however long you want, but then immediately after play Hell Is Near from the new St Vincent record. Again, don't adjust anything between songs.

thats a cool song. i need to get caught up on her. last stuff I heard was masseducation

she seems as loud, if not louder. what am I listening for/was I supposed to hear? the seperation?

If it sounds just as loud or louder to you, then there's nothing you're listening for.

To me, one song n(SoF) is so loud and tight and thin, so much so that I have to turn down the volume to listen to it. Then if I go to any track from that St. Vincent record without adjusting any settings (including volume level) it sounds SUPER quiet and warm and open. I have to turn up the volume to hear it at the same level (if that makes sense).

And I think therein lies a major difference between how these projects were produced/engineered. I don't know shit about mixing/recording/etc but to me that goes a long way toward illustrating what I thought we had been talking about.

Interesting that the sound levels aren't the same for you. I guess all of it is subjective to some degree.

epilogue wrote:

stip wrote:

epilogue wrote:Without adjusting any settings, play SoF. Listen however long you want, but then immediately after play Hell Is Near from the new St Vincent record. Again, don't adjust anything between songs.

thats a cool song. i need to get caught up on her. last stuff I heard was masseducation

she seems as loud, if not louder. what am I listening for/was I supposed to hear? the seperation?

If it sounds just as loud or louder to you, then there's nothing you're listening for.

To me, one song is so loud and tight and thin, so much so that I have to turn down the volume (SoF) to listen to it. Then if I go to any track from that St. Vincent record without adjusting any settings (including volume level) it sounds SUPER quiet and warm and open. I have to turn up the volume to hear it at the same level (if that makes sense).

And I think therein lies a major difference between how these projects were produced/engineered. I don't know shit about mixing/recording/etc but to me that goes a long way toward illustrating what I thought we had been talking about.

Interesting that the sound levels aren't the same for you. I guess all of it is subjective to some degree.

Depending on how exactly these tracks are being listened to there may be software limiters there as well, FM equalization and all that jazz.

oasisfan35 wrote:

epilogue wrote:

stip wrote:

epilogue wrote:Without adjusting any settings, play SoF. Listen however long you want, but then immediately after play Hell Is Near from the new St Vincent record. Again, don't adjust anything between songs.

thats a cool song. i need to get caught up on her. last stuff I heard was masseducation

she seems as loud, if not louder. what am I listening for/was I supposed to hear? the seperation?

If it sounds just as loud or louder to you, then there's nothing you're listening for.

To me, one song is so loud and tight and thin, so much so that I have to turn down the volume (SoF) to listen to it. Then if I go to any track from that St. Vincent record without adjusting any settings (including volume level) it sounds SUPER quiet and warm and open. I have to turn up the volume to hear it at the same level (if that makes sense).

And I think therein lies a major difference between how these projects were produced/engineered. I don't know shit about mixing/recording/etc but to me that goes a long way toward illustrating what I thought we had been talking about.

Interesting that the sound levels aren't the same for you. I guess all of it is subjective to some degree.

Depending on how exactly these tracks are being listened to there may be software limiters there as well, FM equalization and all that jazz.

Totally. I'm sure that's a big part of it. Good call.

epilogue, I understand what you're trying to show, but those two songs are so far apart from each other that it's a really difficult comparison. Surely there are similarly loud and abrasive songs that are mixed in a way where it is easier to listen to.

RockPusher wrote:epilogue, I understand what you're trying to show, but those two songs are so far apart from each other that it's a really difficult comparison. Surely there are similarly loud and abrasive songs that are mixed in a way where it is easier to listen to.

So the abrasive part here is a positive thing?

oasisfan35 wrote:

RockPusher wrote:epilogue, I understand what you're trying to show, but those two songs are so far apart from each other that it's a really difficult comparison. Surely there are similarly loud and abrasive songs that are mixed in a way where it is easier to listen to.

So the abrasive part here is a positive thing?

Sometimes - like on the first few tracks on ST. I find SoF thick and cracking more than abrasive

RockPusher wrote:epilogue, I understand what you're trying to show, but those two songs are so far apart from each other that it's a really difficult comparison. Surely there are similarly loud and abrasive songs that are mixed in a way where it is easier to listen to.

I was just picking track ones. It has nothing to do with composition. If you'd prefer, do the same with SoF and Broken Man. Or Setting Sun and Reckless.

But I think we're talking past each other at this point. I'm fine dropping it and moving on.

stip wrote:

oasisfan35 wrote:

RockPusher wrote:epilogue, I understand what you're trying to show, but those two songs are so far apart from each other that it's a really difficult comparison. Surely there are similarly loud and abrasive songs that are mixed in a way where it is easier to listen to.

So the abrasive part here is a positive thing?

Sometimes - like on the first few tracks on ST. I find SoF thick and cracking more than abrasive

I find both mixes of Life Wasted far more inviting and easier on the ear than Scared of Fear. To each their own.

oasisfan35 wrote:

stip wrote:

oasisfan35 wrote:

RockPusher wrote:epilogue, I understand what you're trying to show, but those two songs are so far apart from each other that it's a really difficult comparison. Surely there are similarly loud and abrasive songs that are mixed in a way where it is easier to listen to.

So the abrasive part here is a positive thing?

Sometimes - like on the first few tracks on ST. I find SoF thick and cracking more than abrasive

I find both mixes of Life Wasted far more inviting and easier on the ear than Scared of Fear. To each their own.

They both sound pretty terrible TBH