Red Mosquito

Rangi Guy wrote:

ABNorman wrote:

harmless wrote: This stuff though... seems to combine what I loved about PJ before with their current 'pop' leanings. But it's all so much more thought-through and practised than Backspacer. At the moment it does feel like Backspacer was a rehearsal for this. Everything is fuller and even though it's 'happy', it doesn't feel superficial. The band is not faking the fun this time.

So, if the rest of the songs live up to the reviews, and this is essentially a deeper, more accomplished Backspacer, does that contextualise Backspacer's place in the catalogue, or usurp it? Eg, if Lightning Bolt is simply a better version of Unthought Known, is there a reason to keep Unthought Known on the playlist?

I still don't see how people are saying that LB is a better UK. Personally I think UK is far superior, that may change over time however

Personally I find UK majestic and great, until the very prominent piano chords leading up to the "Nothing Left" section. At that point it's like the song is a slashed tire and it all falls flat by the end. I like that LB is tightly structured, and doesn't lose steam in its last third. Having said that, it's got other songs in it too... a little bit of the Binaural ('Evacuation') groove here and there.

harmless wrote:

ABNorman wrote:

harmless wrote: This stuff though... seems to combine what I loved about PJ before with their current 'pop' leanings. But it's all so much more thought-through and practised than Backspacer. At the moment it does feel like Backspacer was a rehearsal for this. Everything is fuller and even though it's 'happy', it doesn't feel superficial. The band is not faking the fun this time.

So, if the rest of the songs live up to the reviews, and this is essentially a deeper, more accomplished Backspacer, does that contextualise Backspacer's place in the catalogue, or usurp it? Eg, if Lightning Bolt is simply a better version of Unthought Known, is there a reason to keep Unthought Known on the playlist?

I think Backspacer can stand as an interesting thought experiment ('What if we had a really short pop record?') but it's realisation is hopefully here. Backspacer is lighter, so if you like that kind of thing, it's there for you to enjoy. But is it shorter for a reason, because they were trying something very new?

The length might help it out after a while - at the time it seemed weak to release such a short album after such a long time, but by the time 11 rolls around (if it does), we won't be relying on those 36 minutes for our modern PJ kicks.

verb_to_trust wrote:I still don't really classify Backspacer as 'Pop'.

Oh, hi verb

verb_to_trust wrote:I still don't really classify Backspacer as 'Pop'.

I think that depends on your definition of "pop". Technically, it's just "popular music", and while Backspacer didn't set the charts alight, tracks like Just Breathe certainly had a more popular appeal than something like Worldwide Suicide. (cue sales figures to prove me wrong).

If you define pop as something that's catchy and easy to listen to, I think The Fixer and Just Breathe have got you covered.

If you define pop by spangly production, then Backspacer definitely has a much "poppier" sound to it. I think when people on here call it pop, they're generally referring largely to the production choices (Using JB's bridge as choruses, "fixin'" the Fixer, strings on The End, etc).

I think with Backspacer they really wanted a record that wasn't over thought and bogged down in its own weight. They achieved that, but for me it ended up being too short and a little too by the numbers for them. I like almost every song - but it seemed like there was a better similar song in their back catalogue for every song on the album. I get the sense they worked a lot harder to get a more nuanced record this time around.

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:I still don't really classify Backspacer as 'Pop'.

Oh, hi verb

I suppose i'm trolling by thinking Backspacer isn't Michael Jackson or something?

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:I still don't really classify Backspacer as 'Pop'.

Oh, hi verb

I suppose i'm trolling by thinking Backspacer isn't Michael Jackson or something?

You're bad. You know it. Come on. You know.

ABNorman wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

ABNorman wrote:

harmless wrote: This stuff though... seems to combine what I loved about PJ before with their current 'pop' leanings. But it's all so much more thought-through and practised than Backspacer. At the moment it does feel like Backspacer was a rehearsal for this. Everything is fuller and even though it's 'happy', it doesn't feel superficial. The band is not faking the fun this time.

So, if the rest of the songs live up to the reviews, and this is essentially a deeper, more accomplished Backspacer, does that contextualise Backspacer's place in the catalogue, or usurp it? Eg, if Lightning Bolt is simply a better version of Unthought Known, is there a reason to keep Unthought Known on the playlist?

I still don't see how people are saying that LB is a better UK. Personally I think UK is far superior, that may change over time however

I didn't mean to imply that's definitely the case, but a lot of people are thinking that way. I do think UK peaks too soon and then doesn't go anywhere, but the way the bass and drums expand into the "gems and rhinestones" bit still gives me goosebumps.

that's a great moment in the song for sure. I feel like L-bolt takes that moment and, even if no part of the song quite matches it we still get that 4 seconds extended into a 60 second climax, plus it's a more interesting song surrounding it to boot (UK probably has the better lyrics, though)

verb_to_trust wrote:I still don't really classify Backspacer as 'Pop'.

i guess only by PJ standards. It's a lighter record, but that's not the same thing

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:I still don't really classify Backspacer as 'Pop'.

Oh, hi verb

I suppose i'm trolling by thinking Backspacer isn't Michael Jackson or something?

I didn't say that, I just said hi.

Is pop rock a better classification?

ABNorman wrote:I really wish we still had archives of the old board so we could see reactions to Self-Titled and Backspacer (rather than just peoples' memories).

I do remember pretty clearly that Backspacer and S/T had positive reactions overall, the latter very much in particular. That kind of got rave reviews in the immediacy after it's release. Backspacer's response was a bit more measured when it came to the album; The Fixer, on the other hand, I remember having a very mixed reaction (with it getting heated at points).

liebzz wrote:I think with Backspacer they really wanted a record that wasn't over thought and bogged down in its own weight.

yeah, this

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

harmless wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:I still don't really classify Backspacer as 'Pop'.

Oh, hi verb

I suppose i'm trolling by thinking Backspacer isn't Michael Jackson or something?

I didn't say that, I just said hi.

Is pop rock a better classification?

I really don't know how to classify it, but Pop doesn't fit for me.

digster wrote:

ABNorman wrote:I really wish we still had archives of the old board so we could see reactions to Self-Titled and Backspacer (rather than just peoples' memories).

I do remember pretty clearly that Backspacer and S/T had positive reactions overall, the latter very much in particular. That kind of got rave reviews in the immediacy after it's release. Backspacer's response was a bit more measured when it came to the album; The Fixer, on the other hand, I remember having a very mixed reaction (with it getting heated at points).

yeah S/T suffered a HUGE drop in people's esteem over time, much moreso than Backspacer (longer way to fall, I suppose). A lot of that stems from not sounding like Riot Act, which was a pretty maligned record 7 years ago

I also think people bought a little bit into PJ's push that record; they sold it really hard as being the 'return to rock!' which I think everyone was initially hoping for with Riot Act.

So, do we know who wrote Getaway? I know SW is Ed, so is LB. I also saw that at least the music to LTRP is stone.

Best Guess?

I'd guess Jeff, if only because the bass line is actually the melody of the song that Ed follows. But who knows for sure.

digster wrote:I also think people bought a little bit into PJ's push that record; they sold it really hard as being the 'return to rock!' which I think everyone was initially hoping for with Riot Act.

I certainly did. I was relieved because it felt like I could isolate Binaural and Riot Act as a brief departure from greatness (Binaural has since become a much better listen for me). Since I got burned on that one, and Backspacer was a bit too light to leave a deep impression, LB doesn't have a huge measure to match up to for me.

ABNorman wrote:it felt like I could isolate Binaural and Riot Act as a brief departure from greatness

cutuphalfdead wrote:

ABNorman wrote:it felt like I could isolate Binaural and Riot Act as a brief departure from greatness

Now now, I'm not attacking anybody's love of these albums (and this isn't the place for another album debate). Binaural retracked with Fatal and Sad brings it much closer to the top of my list.

Riot Act is a lost cause for me though, except for All Or None, sorry.

Now onwards to Lightning Bolt!