Red Mosquito

Bi_3 wrote:

spike wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Sure, in memos, I think it's just the first time she's gone on record clearing stating that vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaccinated and can be infected just like the unvaxxed. Hopefully this means she will be willing to admit that the vaccines are failing in under a year and thus we need boosters and whatever Merck's magic bean is approved like now plz k thnx.

As for kids... there might be an argument for natural immunity there. Are child hospitalization rates actually up significantly or are we just seeing more detected cases?

"Vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaxxed"?? Vaccinated people transmit much, much less than the unvaxxed.

Good call, I’d forgotten this part. Something about the vaccine killing of the virus much more efficiently, so less opportunity for it to be infectious. Same reason vaccines prevent severe cases.

The vaccine doesn’t kill things. Vaxxed folx can transmit just like the unvaxxed, they just, usually, have a shorter window in which the transmission can occur. I sho up Ltd have been more clear on that so B was correct

It is possible for vaccinated people to get sick and spread it. It's maybe, maybe possible for them to have virus in their respiratory system and spread it. But a significant number of people are immune. They don't get sick. They don't spread.

The numbers aren't clear b/c you can't randomize and control the general public.

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

spike wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Sure, in memos, I think it's just the first time she's gone on record clearing stating that vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaccinated and can be infected just like the unvaxxed. Hopefully this means she will be willing to admit that the vaccines are failing in under a year and thus we need boosters and whatever Merck's magic bean is approved like now plz k thnx.

As for kids... there might be an argument for natural immunity there. Are child hospitalization rates actually up significantly or are we just seeing more detected cases?

"Vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaxxed"?? Vaccinated people transmit much, much less than the unvaxxed.

Good call, I’d forgotten this part. Something about the vaccine killing of the virus much more efficiently, so less opportunity for it to be infectious. Same reason vaccines prevent severe cases.

The vaccine doesn’t kill things. Vaxxed folx can transmit just like the unvaxxed, they just, usually, have a shorter window in which the transmission can occur. I sho up Ltd have been more clear on that so B was correct

It is possible for vaccinated people to get sick and spread it. It's maybe, maybe possible for them to have virus in their respiratory system and spread it. But a significant number of people are immune. They don't get sick. They don't spread.

The numbers aren't clear b/c you can't randomize and control the general public.

Its weird that we can have authoritative statements on things like this, but any pushback on masks being harmful to young kids gets met with, "there's no science to support that" (ie, no RCTs which would never make it past an IRB).

simple schoolboy wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

spike wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Sure, in memos, I think it's just the first time she's gone on record clearing stating that vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaccinated and can be infected just like the unvaxxed. Hopefully this means she will be willing to admit that the vaccines are failing in under a year and thus we need boosters and whatever Merck's magic bean is approved like now plz k thnx.

As for kids... there might be an argument for natural immunity there. Are child hospitalization rates actually up significantly or are we just seeing more detected cases?

"Vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaxxed"?? Vaccinated people transmit much, much less than the unvaxxed.

Good call, I’d forgotten this part. Something about the vaccine killing of the virus much more efficiently, so less opportunity for it to be infectious. Same reason vaccines prevent severe cases.

The vaccine doesn’t kill things. Vaxxed folx can transmit just like the unvaxxed, they just, usually, have a shorter window in which the transmission can occur. I sho up Ltd have been more clear on that so B was correct

It is possible for vaccinated people to get sick and spread it. It's maybe, maybe possible for them to have virus in their respiratory system and spread it. But a significant number of people are immune. They don't get sick. They don't spread.

The numbers aren't clear b/c you can't randomize and control the general public.

Its weird that we can have authoritative statements on things like this, but any pushback on masks being harmful to young kids gets met with, "there's no science to support that" (ie, no RCTs which would never make it past an IRB).

that's just a gentle way of saying that masks being harmful is a ridiculous notion that doesn't merit any investigation.

spike wrote:

simple schoolboy wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

spike wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Sure, in memos, I think it's just the first time she's gone on record clearing stating that vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaccinated and can be infected just like the unvaxxed. Hopefully this means she will be willing to admit that the vaccines are failing in under a year and thus we need boosters and whatever Merck's magic bean is approved like now plz k thnx.

As for kids... there might be an argument for natural immunity there. Are child hospitalization rates actually up significantly or are we just seeing more detected cases?

"Vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaxxed"?? Vaccinated people transmit much, much less than the unvaxxed.

Good call, I’d forgotten this part. Something about the vaccine killing of the virus much more efficiently, so less opportunity for it to be infectious. Same reason vaccines prevent severe cases.

The vaccine doesn’t kill things. Vaxxed folx can transmit just like the unvaxxed, they just, usually, have a shorter window in which the transmission can occur. I sho up Ltd have been more clear on that so B was correct

It is possible for vaccinated people to get sick and spread it. It's maybe, maybe possible for them to have virus in their respiratory system and spread it. But a significant number of people are immune. They don't get sick. They don't spread.

The numbers aren't clear b/c you can't randomize and control the general public.

Its weird that we can have authoritative statements on things like this, but any pushback on masks being harmful to young kids gets met with, "there's no science to support that" (ie, no RCTs which would never make it past an IRB).

that's just a gentle way of saying that masks being harmful is a ridiculous notion that doesn't merit any investigation.

Harmful to the socio-emotional development of 2 year olds? Plenty of reason to believe it might. We are also pretty unique in masking 2 year olds. Most other developed countries only have much older kids wear masks.

simple schoolboy wrote:

spike wrote:

simple schoolboy wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

spike wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Sure, in memos, I think it's just the first time she's gone on record clearing stating that vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaccinated and can be infected just like the unvaxxed. Hopefully this means she will be willing to admit that the vaccines are failing in under a year and thus we need boosters and whatever Merck's magic bean is approved like now plz k thnx.

As for kids... there might be an argument for natural immunity there. Are child hospitalization rates actually up significantly or are we just seeing more detected cases?

"Vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaxxed"?? Vaccinated people transmit much, much less than the unvaxxed.

Good call, I’d forgotten this part. Something about the vaccine killing of the virus much more efficiently, so less opportunity for it to be infectious. Same reason vaccines prevent severe cases.

The vaccine doesn’t kill things. Vaxxed folx can transmit just like the unvaxxed, they just, usually, have a shorter window in which the transmission can occur. I sho up Ltd have been more clear on that so B was correct

It is possible for vaccinated people to get sick and spread it. It's maybe, maybe possible for them to have virus in their respiratory system and spread it. But a significant number of people are immune. They don't get sick. They don't spread.

The numbers aren't clear b/c you can't randomize and control the general public.

Its weird that we can have authoritative statements on things like this, but any pushback on masks being harmful to young kids gets met with, "there's no science to support that" (ie, no RCTs which would never make it past an IRB).

that's just a gentle way of saying that masks being harmful is a ridiculous notion that doesn't merit any investigation.

Harmful to the socio-emotional development of 2 year olds? Plenty of reason to believe it might. We are also pretty unique in masking 2 year olds. Most other developed countries only have much older kids wear masks.

better cancel halloween

Its not uncommon for societies to ask the young to sacrifice for the greater good, but we normally wait until they are 17 or so.

sacrifice what?

spike wrote:sacrifice what?

Requiring them to get a vaccine with almost no upside for them and possible downside. Even per the Bangladesh study, masks do almost nothing for younger cohorts.

spike wrote:

simple schoolboy wrote:

spike wrote:

simple schoolboy wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

spike wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Sure, in memos, I think it's just the first time she's gone on record clearing stating that vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaccinated and can be infected just like the unvaxxed. Hopefully this means she will be willing to admit that the vaccines are failing in under a year and thus we need boosters and whatever Merck's magic bean is approved like now plz k thnx.

As for kids... there might be an argument for natural immunity there. Are child hospitalization rates actually up significantly or are we just seeing more detected cases?

"Vaccinated people transmit just like the unvaxxed"?? Vaccinated people transmit much, much less than the unvaxxed.

Good call, I’d forgotten this part. Something about the vaccine killing of the virus much more efficiently, so less opportunity for it to be infectious. Same reason vaccines prevent severe cases.

The vaccine doesn’t kill things. Vaxxed folx can transmit just like the unvaxxed, they just, usually, have a shorter window in which the transmission can occur. I sho up Ltd have been more clear on that so B was correct

It is possible for vaccinated people to get sick and spread it. It's maybe, maybe possible for them to have virus in their respiratory system and spread it. But a significant number of people are immune. They don't get sick. They don't spread.

The numbers aren't clear b/c you can't randomize and control the general public.

Its weird that we can have authoritative statements on things like this, but any pushback on masks being harmful to young kids gets met with, "there's no science to support that" (ie, no RCTs which would never make it past an IRB).

that's just a gentle way of saying that masks being harmful is a ridiculous notion that doesn't merit any investigation.

Harmful to the socio-emotional development of 2 year olds? Plenty of reason to believe it might. We are also pretty unique in masking 2 year olds. Most other developed countries only have much older kids wear masks.

better cancel halloween

Just crushing it spike. Congrats.

simple schoolboy wrote:Harmful to the socio-emotional development of 2 year olds? Plenty of reason to believe it might. We are also pretty unique in masking 2 year olds. Most other developed countries only have much older kids wear masks.

Define "plenty." Because I had to work down 15 hits on Google before I found an article claiming harm, and it's written by a Federalist writer for a local paper in Utah. She cites local teachers and parents, no doctors, scientists, or experts of any kind.

I might add that the 14 prior articles are reputable medical and journalistic sites who interviewed pediatricians and mental health experts and found, at worst, short-term, minor issues with kids in masks greatly outweighed by the prevention of disease.

B wrote:

simple schoolboy wrote:Harmful to the socio-emotional development of 2 year olds? Plenty of reason to believe it might. We are also pretty unique in masking 2 year olds. Most other developed countries only have much older kids wear masks.

Define "plenty." Because I had to work down 15 hits on Google before I found an article claiming harm, and it's written by a Federalist writer for a local paper in Utah. She cites local teachers and parents, no doctors, scientists, or experts of any kind.

I might add that the 14 prior articles are reputable medical and journalistic sites who interviewed pediatricians and mental health experts and found, at worst, short-term, minor issues with kids in masks greatly outweighed by the prevention of disease.

They were accidentally lost in a web migration a few months back: https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL1N2PR1QG


I would also point out, and this sounds a bit conspiracy theory like, but Google, Youtube, and other internet services actively remove things classified as Covid 'misinformation' so you are not likely top find anything anti-mask anyway.

Oh, I didn't realize I needed to google "misinformation about harm to children from masks." I found it now. I stand corrected.

B wrote:Oh, I didn't realize I needed to google "misinformation about harm to children from masks." I found it now. I stand corrected.

I dont understand what this means.

For example, the idea that cloth masks expose children to impactful CO2 levels has never been proven, but that is not the only concern and it appears that many concerns all get lumped together with that one under the misinformation header.

That's not even what the article you posted was about.

It was about a tweet that the AAP was removing information about the importance of facial cues to children.

The article clearly stated, "Verdict: Misleading."

As for CO2, let's ask Kimberly W. Dickinson, MD, MPH, is a pediatric pulmonary fellow at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD and Theresa W. Guilbert, MD, MS, FAAP, is a Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Cincinnati and the Director of the Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center Asthma Center in the Pulmonary Division.

Do masks trap the carbon dioxide that we normally breathe out?

No. There have been false reports that face masks can lead to carbon dioxide poisoning (known as hypercapnia) from re-breathing the air we normally breathe out. But this is not true. Carbon dioxide molecules are very tiny, even smaller than respiratory droplets. They cannot be trapped by breathable materials like cloth or disposable masks. In fact, surgeons wear tight fitting masks all day as part of their jobs, without any harm.

-----

Harm to children from masks is made up gobletygook, and any theoretical, short-term, minor effects are clearly outweighed by the risk of COVID to themselves and those around them. The best way to get kids out of masks (and seriously, we all want kids out of masks) is to vaccinate their family members, caregivers, and teachers and give them the vaccine as soon as it's made available to them.

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:Oh, I didn't realize I needed to google "misinformation about harm to children from masks." I found it now. I stand corrected.

I dont understand what this means.

For example, the idea that cloth masks expose children to impactful CO2 levels has never been proven, but that is not the only concern and it appears that many concerns all get lumped together with that one under the misinformation header.

We don't need RCTs to demonstrate any effective reduction in pathogens emitted, because *Science*. Its dumb, and possibly cruel to mask 2 year olds. Why does this need to be a point of contention? Why are so many positively giddy at the thought of forcing NPIs and injections on kids that we have no reason to believe will on net benefit them?

B wrote: The article clearly stated, "Verdict: Misleading."

Anything with this title is retarded bullshit trying to justify a narrative. Thanks for the Snopes-esque rejoinder.

simple schoolboy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:Oh, I didn't realize I needed to google "misinformation about harm to children from masks." I found it now. I stand corrected.

I dont understand what this means.

For example, the idea that cloth masks expose children to impactful CO2 levels has never been proven, but that is not the only concern and it appears that many concerns all get lumped together with that one under the misinformation header.

We don't need RCTs to demonstrate any effective reduction in pathogens emitted, because *Science*. Its dumb, and possibly cruel to mask 2 year olds. Why does this need to be a point of contention? Why are so many positively giddy at the thought of forcing NPIs and injections on kids that we have no reason to believe will on net benefit them?

"children under 2 years of age should not wear masks since they may not be able to remove them without help. Children with severe breathing problems or cognitive impairments may also have a hard time tolerating a face mask and extra precautions may be needed."

Nobody's trying to murder your 2yr old, schoolboy.

Nobody's giddy.

B wrote:

simple schoolboy wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:Oh, I didn't realize I needed to google "misinformation about harm to children from masks." I found it now. I stand corrected.

I dont understand what this means.

For example, the idea that cloth masks expose children to impactful CO2 levels has never been proven, but that is not the only concern and it appears that many concerns all get lumped together with that one under the misinformation header.

We don't need RCTs to demonstrate any effective reduction in pathogens emitted, because *Science*. Its dumb, and possibly cruel to mask 2 year olds. Why does this need to be a point of contention? Why are so many positively giddy at the thought of forcing NPIs and injections on kids that we have no reason to believe will on net benefit them?

Children with severe breathing problems or cognitive impairments may also have a hard time tolerating a face mask and extra precautions may be needed.

Its still mandated, but we'll throw in some boilerplate so when the kids are crying and the classroom assistant is forcing it back on their face for the 20th time we have something to waive at. Its not killing them, its just unpleasant (and unecessary) but in the spirit of hygeine theater, we'll keep it up forever, and just like taking off shoes in the TSA line we'll tell ourselves that somehow, somewhere, we've saved someone.

I do hear heart inflammation can go sideways from time to time.

B wrote:That's not even what the article you posted was about.

It was about a tweet that the AAP was removing information about the importance of facial cues to children.

The article clearly stated, "Verdict: Misleading."

As for CO2, let's ask Kimberly W. Dickinson, MD, MPH, is a pediatric pulmonary fellow at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD and Theresa W. Guilbert, MD, MS, FAAP, is a Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Cincinnati and the Director of the Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center Asthma Center in the Pulmonary Division.

Do masks trap the carbon dioxide that we normally breathe out?

No. There have been false reports that face masks can lead to carbon dioxide poisoning (known as hypercapnia) from re-breathing the air we normally breathe out. But this is not true. Carbon dioxide molecules are very tiny, even smaller than respiratory droplets. They cannot be trapped by breathable materials like cloth or disposable masks. In fact, surgeons wear tight fitting masks all day as part of their jobs, without any harm.

-----

Harm to children from masks is made up gobletygook, and any theoretical, short-term, minor effects are clearly outweighed by the risk of COVID to themselves and those around them. The best way to get kids out of masks (and seriously, we all want kids out of masks) is to vaccinate their family members, caregivers, and teachers and give them the vaccine as soon as it's made available to them.

Sorry, I dont understand. I agree the mask C02 effect on kids is nonsense, I used that as an example of misinformation in my post like four up.

But that doesn't mean that there are not other effects, like physiological impacts on toddlers... whose language/social skills are still developing... of not being able to see faces and mouths. It may very well be that those are not significant enough to stop mask usage, but they still exist and if we actually want to "follow science" then we can't pretend they don't by hiding them. This noble lie shit is killing us.

Bi_3 wrote:But that doesn't mean that there are not other effects, like physiological impacts on toddlers... whose language/social skills are still developing... of not being able to see faces and mouths. It may very well be that those are not significant enough to stop mask usage, but they still exist and if we actually want to "follow science" then we can't pretend they don't by hiding them. This noble lie shit is killing us.

The article you posted as evidence of this specifically stated that claims of the science not being followed were misleading.