Red Mosquito

scrub12 wrote:Who Ever Said and Seven O'Clock don't necessarily sound like typical Ed songs. Never Destination and Comes then Goes for sure do. I enjoy River Cross so I'm good with that one.

have you heard it or just basing off reviews?

Johnny needs to calm down.

Seriously though, glad he’s stoked. More positivity behind this.

Vindicator wrote:

scrub12 wrote:Who Ever Said and Seven O'Clock don't necessarily sound like typical Ed songs. Never Destination and Comes then Goes for sure do. I enjoy River Cross so I'm good with that one.

have you heard it or just basing off reviews?

Nah Im just basing it off the reviews and descriptions.

Birds in Hell wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I don't even know what "lyrics, Ed / music, Ed" means

clearly it means he writes the whole song's lyrics, that's one person's job

but other than that, it means what, that he writes a guitar part? puts some chords together? the strength of the song overall is still what the band (and producer) add to that, in terms of arrangement and instrumentation; the song is still the sum of everyone's creativity unless Ed is literally going around telling them all what to play in great detail... which he may be doing, idk

not one man can be greater than the sum

This seems a bit obtuse, clearly the outcome of the above process is strongly determined by the chord progressions and melody ideas brought in by Ed.

What's wrong with SBWM is entirely due to the faults in Ed's songwriting, not what the other band members are doing.

I see what you're saying, but I think what the band is doing in SBWM is the difference between a song I might not like, and one that I do like

and I think I probably just put less stock in the skeleton of a song, compared to what the entire band brings to it, than perhaps you do; Pearl Jam has always been that band for me

so, for example, I think "Breakerfall" is literally made a good song by the textures of instrumentation, the performances, etc.

it literally mentions a female protagonist crying to her doll; that would be pretty bad without Pearl Jam around it

Vindicator wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I don't even know what "lyrics, Ed / music, Ed" means

clearly it means he writes the whole song's lyrics, that's one person's job

but other than that, it means what, that he writes a guitar part? puts some chords together? the strength of the song overall is still what the band (and producer) add to that, in terms of arrangement and instrumentation; the song is still the sum of everyone's creativity unless Ed is literally going around telling them all what to play in great detail... which he may be doing, idk

not one man can be greater than the sum

I think it depends on each song and it's difficult to know without hearing the original demo to see how complete the song was before bringing it to the band. Listen to Matt Cameron's demo of The Fixer. Totally different song but that main riff was the same. He gets total writing credit. A song like SBWM, I'm sure Ed had it mostly complete and Mike just layed down a solo ( gets no writing credit for that)

The songs are definitely a product of all their inputs that's for sure.

absolutely

scrub12 wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I don't even know what "lyrics, Ed / music, Ed" means

clearly it means he writes the whole song's lyrics, that's one person's job

but other than that, it means what, that he writes a guitar part? puts some chords together? the strength of the song overall is still what the band (and producer) add to that, in terms of arrangement and instrumentation; the song is still the sum of everyone's creativity unless Ed is literally going around telling them all what to play in great detail... which he may be doing, idk

not one man can be greater than the sum

This seems a bit obtuse, clearly the outcome of the above process is strongly determined by the chord progressions and melody ideas brought in by Ed.

What's wrong with SBWM is entirely due to the faults in Ed's songwriting, not what the other band members are doing.

I see what you're saying, but I think what the band is doing in SBWM is the difference between a song I might not like, and one that I do like

and I think I probably just put less stock in the skeleton of a song, compared to what the entire band brings to it, than perhaps you do; Pearl Jam has always been that band for me

so, for example, I think "Breakerfall" is literally made a good song by the textures of instrumentation, the performances, etc.

it literally mentions a female protagonist crying to her doll; that would be pretty bad without Pearl Jam around it

the thing is, I haven't played for years but I'm a drummer at heart so I truly don't care much about the demos, only what happened after the collaborative process; you really can polish a turd

Ms Harmless wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I don't even know what "lyrics, Ed / music, Ed" means

clearly it means he writes the whole song's lyrics, that's one person's job

but other than that, it means what, that he writes a guitar part? puts some chords together? the strength of the song overall is still what the band (and producer) add to that, in terms of arrangement and instrumentation; the song is still the sum of everyone's creativity unless Ed is literally going around telling them all what to play in great detail... which he may be doing, idk

not one man can be greater than the sum

This seems a bit obtuse, clearly the outcome of the above process is strongly determined by the chord progressions and melody ideas brought in by Ed.

What's wrong with SBWM is entirely due to the faults in Ed's songwriting, not what the other band members are doing.

I see what you're saying, but I think what the band is doing in SBWM is the difference between a song I might not like, and one that I do like

and I think I probably just put less stock in the skeleton of a song, compared to what the entire band brings to it, than perhaps you do; Pearl Jam has always been that band for me

so, for example, I think "Breakerfall" is literally made a good song by the textures of instrumentation, the performances, etc.

it literally mentions a female protagonist crying to her doll; that would be pretty bad without Pearl Jam around it

For me, lyrics have almost zero importance. Vocals can be a great percussive, textural addition to a song, but Ed could be singing about what day the rubbish gets picked up for all I care.

Breakerfall is a good example, as the main reason it's not a particularly successful song for me is that Ed's musical idea is pretty limited and dull. The band could knock their eyeballs out playing it but it's still at heart not very interesting.

Something like Big Wave is the polar opposite. I have no idea what the words are but it's a thoughtfully-written, interesting rock song.

Breakerfall is better than Big Wave though, so.....

scrub12 wrote:

someone needs to hose me down.

verb_to_trust wrote:

stip wrote:

Vindicator wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Vindicator wrote:Seems like Ed was pretty prolific this time around, writing Who Ever Said, SBWM, Never Destination, Comes Then Goes and River Cross.

Ed wrote 5 out of the 12 songs.

Jeff wrote 2.

Stone 1.

Matt 1

Mike 1.

DOTC was a full band effort and Seven O Clock I'm not sure who gets the credit there, only that it originated from a jam session.

Great scenario

Eh, I don't know I have tempered expectations on these Ed tracks. Never Destination could be a word shit salad like SBWM. Comes Then Goes could be a boring Ed solo acoustic track. Who Ever Said I'm REALLY hoping delivers an awesome PJ track I've been waiting for, but it may turn out more The Getaway or something like that. And River Cross we pretty much know what it is, a nice Ed track.

Superblood Wolfmoon’s lyrics are quite good, everyone

Jesus Christ no they aren't

They pretty deftly juggle a few themes/ideas at multiple levels with quite a few memorable turns of phrase. There is one dud line, but thats it

could use more hosing.

and no qualifiers - for this kind of song, etc. Just flat out good

https://twitter.com/JohnnyFirecloud/sta ... 22470?s=19

That's serious praise for Who Ever Said.

Release_Me wrote:https://twitter.com/JohnnyFirecloud/status/1239636327013822470?s=19

That's serious praise for Who Ever Said.

Shots fired at Gonna See My Friend.

I don't really get the complaints about the SBWM lyrics. They're just fine. A couple really good lines, maybe a couple missteps, but overall they're pretty solid.

It's not as dumb as the "word salad" thing, which is a remarkably stupid complaint that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but still...

Im hopeful that somehow Ed is behind his ITW/Backspacer phase, were he tried to write simple, short songs. Its ok buddy, we all have that Guided By Voices phase....

Hopefully, this guy writing these songs is closer than the guy who wrote RVM, Porch or even Severed Hand.

Im also hopeful with Josh Evans behind this album...i mean, SBWM would have been closer to anything from LB, and its a very different beast, at least sonically than those songs.

stip wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:

stip wrote:

Vindicator wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

Vindicator wrote:Seems like Ed was pretty prolific this time around, writing Who Ever Said, SBWM, Never Destination, Comes Then Goes and River Cross.

Ed wrote 5 out of the 12 songs.

Jeff wrote 2.

Stone 1.

Matt 1

Mike 1.

DOTC was a full band effort and Seven O Clock I'm not sure who gets the credit there, only that it originated from a jam session.

Great scenario

Eh, I don't know I have tempered expectations on these Ed tracks. Never Destination could be a word shit salad like SBWM. Comes Then Goes could be a boring Ed solo acoustic track. Who Ever Said I'm REALLY hoping delivers an awesome PJ track I've been waiting for, but it may turn out more The Getaway or something like that. And River Cross we pretty much know what it is, a nice Ed track.

Superblood Wolfmoon’s lyrics are quite good, everyone

Jesus Christ no they aren't

They pretty deftly juggle a few themes/ideas at multiple levels with quite a few memorable turns of phrase. There is one dud line, but thats it

I agree, Stip; what I like is that they're a fragmentary mess of a narrative that I can't follow but there are lines that pop out; the lyrics on this album seem to be shaping up that way generally, more Riot Act than the painstakingly literal reportage of S-T, but with a little more story thrown in

I adore the lyrics of DOC.