Red Mosquito

stupidmop wrote:I've got nothing against catchy, in fact the only part if LB I like is the chorus. But if you can't hear a difference between these songs and ten/vs I don't know what to tell you. They were catchy without being bland or inane or whatever. And its not just that the songs were agressive or angry or whatever, breath exudes more joyful abandon than any of backspacer, and I find evenflow downright danceable. You strip the vocals off it and its still danceable.

I don't even know how this newer stuff is more commercial like everyone keeps saying, what audience is this rock-lite stuff aimed towards? I don't know anything about charts but if I'm thinking of the most popular rock musicians/ bands right now I've got qotsa, arctic monkeys and like jack while or something.

stip wrote:Release_Me makes a good point. The songs to compare these to are the faster songs on other records. Not that people are explicitly comparing them to moodier/more atmospheric songs, but I suspect some people are disappointed because they AREN'T these kinds of songs. But we know those songs were written and are coming. Then it makes sense to start comparing them, for better or worse, to their peers.

stip wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I've got nothing against catchy, in fact the only part if LB I like is the chorus. But if you can't hear a difference between these songs and ten/vs I don't know what to tell you. They were catchy without being bland or inane or whatever. And its not just that the songs were agressive or angry or whatever, breath exudes more joyful abandon than any of backspacer, and I find evenflow downright danceable. You strip the vocals off it and its still danceable.

I don't even know how this newer stuff is more commercial like everyone keeps saying, what audience is this rock-lite stuff aimed towards? I don't know anything about charts but if I'm thinking of the most popular rock musicians/ bands right now I've got qotsa, arctic monkeys and like jack while or something.

it's more U2 and REMish, which are influences they started moving towards more aggressively on Backspacer. At least that's what I'm hearing. Even if you're not getting parallels with the songs the sensibility is the same. REM wrote some very dark songs, but there was a janglyness to them that separated them from other mopey/naval gazing acts that would have been their peers. That even if the music is DESCRIBING a burden it shouldn't BE a burden (what the mid period records, especially Riot Act and Binaural, are missing for me). And then later on, an ability to aggressively go after big sentiments without sounding cheesy in the process. Pearl Jam always had the later. It's the former that I think really help categorize the new records. We keep using words like poppy and fun, but I think they miss what is at the heart of these songs.

I love REM and quite a bit of U2. I think songs like Born to Run, with all its triumphal excess, are the heart of what rock music should be (or what I want it to be). The early records came from that place. The mid period records lost it, and the esteem with which they are held really depends on how much you either A: didn't give a shit about it or B: liked what replaced it. The later records recapture that spirit but without the angst and anger and aggression of a young band railing against a world they don't really understand yet.

I miss that. Pearl Jam 1991-1994 was the pinnacle of rock music for me. But it's not coming back because it can't come back. These aren't the same people. They shouldn't be. If they learned nothing over 20 years they would not be worth listening to anyway. But I think these recent songs show some potential to recapture the spirit of Born to Run without the lashing out. And 20 years in I'll take it and be grateful for it

Release_Me wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I've got nothing against catchy, in fact the only part if LB I like is the chorus. But if you can't hear a difference between these songs and ten/vs I don't know what to tell you. They were catchy without being bland or inane or whatever. And its not just that the songs were agressive or angry or whatever, breath exudes more joyful abandon than any of backspacer, and I find evenflow downright danceable. You strip the vocals off it and its still danceable.

I don't even know how this newer stuff is more commercial like everyone keeps saying, what audience is this rock-lite stuff aimed towards? I don't know anything about charts but if I'm thinking of the most popular rock musicians/ bands right now I've got qotsa, arctic monkeys and like jack while or something.

The difference is predominantly Ed. The songwriting style on the LB rockers is not dissimilar to some of the biggest hits on Ten or Vs. Ed just isn't angsty anymore. That changes the overall mood and feel of the songs. My point is exactly what you said. Evenflow is just as danceable as LTRP or Getaway. What makes it so much better? Young Ed.

harmless wrote:I just don't think we agree on a lot of this. I don't find "Immortality" an easy listen at all, nor anything on Vitalogy really. I don't find No Code or Versus or even Ten to be life-affirming. The "joy", if you experienced any while listening, was in the power of Ed's bombastic performance, mixed with Mike's shredding, Stone's chunky riffs, and Dave A.'s air-drumming-worthy musicianship. They were the kind of band you could jump around your room to. But they weren't joyful, even if they weren't as depressive as Joy Division. Binaural and Riot Act were perfectly logical directions to go down, for the time.

Juvenal wrote:I couldn't be arsed comparing them to the back catalogue. In the here and now I'm enjoying them, and endlessly bleating that the halycon days were better bores me.

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I've got nothing against catchy, in fact the only part if LB I like is the chorus. But if you can't hear a difference between these songs and ten/vs I don't know what to tell you. They were catchy without being bland or inane or whatever. And its not just that the songs were agressive or angry or whatever, breath exudes more joyful abandon than any of backspacer, and I find evenflow downright danceable. You strip the vocals off it and its still danceable.

I don't even know how this newer stuff is more commercial like everyone keeps saying, what audience is this rock-lite stuff aimed towards? I don't know anything about charts but if I'm thinking of the most popular rock musicians/ bands right now I've got qotsa, arctic monkeys and like jack while or something.

The difference is predominantly Ed. The songwriting style on the LB rockers is not dissimilar to some of the biggest hits on Ten or Vs. Ed just isn't angsty anymore. That changes the overall mood and feel of the songs. My point is exactly what you said. Evenflow is just as danceable as LTRP or Getaway. What makes it so much better? Young Ed.

The guitar, drum and bass tones are *entirely* different to anything on Ten and Versus, though. I feel as if you're not seeing this really obvious point. There is *no* abrasiveness to these songs. There is no "Blood", no "Animal", no "Go", etc. etc. "Type of song" is a conversation we can have, but then there is musicianship and instrumental tone. For me, Pearl Jam now will *never* sound like Pearl Jam then because they will never have the interplay between Jeff and Dave A. again.

harmless wrote:

Juvenal wrote:I couldn't be arsed comparing them to the back catalogue. In the here and now I'm enjoying them, and endlessly bleating that the halycon days were better bores me.

Yeah. I just want them to be good in themselves, and these are.

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:I just don't think we agree on a lot of this. I don't find "Immortality" an easy listen at all, nor anything on Vitalogy really. I don't find No Code or Versus or even Ten to be life-affirming. The "joy", if you experienced any while listening, was in the power of Ed's bombastic performance, mixed with Mike's shredding, Stone's chunky riffs, and Dave A.'s air-drumming-worthy musicianship. They were the kind of band you could jump around your room to. But they weren't joyful, even if they weren't as depressive as Joy Division. Binaural and Riot Act were perfectly logical directions to go down, for the time.

Immortality is a moody ballad and one of their darkest songs. When I said easy listen, I was comparing to something like Sleight of Hand or Nothing As It Seems. The content of all these is dark and so is the music. But Immortality is undoubtedly the best song. a lot of this comes down to the superior melody. PJ never compromised on melody, even in their darkest moments. Until No Code maybe.

The early songs like Evenflow, Alive, etc ended up not being joyful because of what Ed did with the lyrics and vocals. Otherwise, if someone like Bon Jovi sang on them, I'm pretty sure they could have been celebratory anthems. The fact that the musicians did a better job on these songs than what they might do on the LB rockers is a separate point. I am just comparing the songwriting styles. It's quite distinct from the middle period.

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I've got nothing against catchy, in fact the only part if LB I like is the chorus. But if you can't hear a difference between these songs and ten/vs I don't know what to tell you. They were catchy without being bland or inane or whatever. And its not just that the songs were agressive or angry or whatever, breath exudes more joyful abandon than any of backspacer, and I find evenflow downright danceable. You strip the vocals off it and its still danceable.

I don't even know how this newer stuff is more commercial like everyone keeps saying, what audience is this rock-lite stuff aimed towards? I don't know anything about charts but if I'm thinking of the most popular rock musicians/ bands right now I've got qotsa, arctic monkeys and like jack while or something.

The difference is predominantly Ed. The songwriting style on the LB rockers is not dissimilar to some of the biggest hits on Ten or Vs. Ed just isn't angsty anymore. That changes the overall mood and feel of the songs. My point is exactly what you said. Evenflow is just as danceable as LTRP or Getaway. What makes it so much better? Young Ed.

The guitar, drum and bass tones are *entirely* different to anything on Ten and Versus, though. I feel as if you're not seeing this really obvious point. There is *no* abrasiveness to these songs. There is no "Blood", no "Animal", no "Go", etc. etc. "Type of song" is a conversation we can have, but then there is musicianship and instrumental tone. For me, Pearl Jam now will *never* sound like Pearl Jam then because they will never have the interplay between Jeff and Dave A. again.

Agreed on most points. My comparison is based primarily on the songwriting style. The instruments and how they are played is not my focus. It's the catchiness of the melodies.

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I've got nothing against catchy, in fact the only part if LB I like is the chorus. But if you can't hear a difference between these songs and ten/vs I don't know what to tell you. They were catchy without being bland or inane or whatever. And its not just that the songs were agressive or angry or whatever, breath exudes more joyful abandon than any of backspacer, and I find evenflow downright danceable. You strip the vocals off it and its still danceable.

I don't even know how this newer stuff is more commercial like everyone keeps saying, what audience is this rock-lite stuff aimed towards? I don't know anything about charts but if I'm thinking of the most popular rock musicians/ bands right now I've got qotsa, arctic monkeys and like jack while or something.

The difference is predominantly Ed. The songwriting style on the LB rockers is not dissimilar to some of the biggest hits on Ten or Vs. Ed just isn't angsty anymore. That changes the overall mood and feel of the songs. My point is exactly what you said. Evenflow is just as danceable as LTRP or Getaway. What makes it so much better? Young Ed.

The guitar, drum and bass tones are *entirely* different to anything on Ten and Versus, though. I feel as if you're not seeing this really obvious point. There is *no* abrasiveness to these songs. There is no "Blood", no "Animal", no "Go", etc. etc. "Type of song" is a conversation we can have, but then there is musicianship and instrumental tone. For me, Pearl Jam now will *never* sound like Pearl Jam then because they will never have the interplay between Jeff and Dave A. again.

Agreed on most points. My comparison is based primarily on the songwriting style. The instruments and how they are played is not my focus. It's the catchiness of the melodies.

OK, that's great. I think a lot of the naysayers come from a musicians' perspective, though. If a song is mostly melody and energy to you, you're still going to get excited by this stuff.

Heathen wrote:

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I've got nothing against catchy, in fact the only part if LB I like is the chorus. But if you can't hear a difference between these songs and ten/vs I don't know what to tell you. They were catchy without being bland or inane or whatever. And its not just that the songs were agressive or angry or whatever, breath exudes more joyful abandon than any of backspacer, and I find evenflow downright danceable. You strip the vocals off it and its still danceable.

I don't even know how this newer stuff is more commercial like everyone keeps saying, what audience is this rock-lite stuff aimed towards? I don't know anything about charts but if I'm thinking of the most popular rock musicians/ bands right now I've got qotsa, arctic monkeys and like jack while or something.

The difference is predominantly Ed. The songwriting style on the LB rockers is not dissimilar to some of the biggest hits on Ten or Vs. Ed just isn't angsty anymore. That changes the overall mood and feel of the songs. My point is exactly what you said. Evenflow is just as danceable as LTRP or Getaway. What makes it so much better? Young Ed.

The guitar, drum and bass tones are *entirely* different to anything on Ten and Versus, though. I feel as if you're not seeing this really obvious point. There is *no* abrasiveness to these songs. There is no "Blood", no "Animal", no "Go", etc. etc. "Type of song" is a conversation we can have, but then there is musicianship and instrumental tone. For me, Pearl Jam now will *never* sound like Pearl Jam then because they will never have the interplay between Jeff and Dave A. again.

Agreed on most points. My comparison is based primarily on the songwriting style. The instruments and how they are played is not my focus. It's the catchiness of the melodies.

OK, that's great. I think a lot of the naysayers come from a musicians' perspective, though. If a song is mostly melody and energy to you, you're still going to get excited by this stuff.

I don't come from a musicians perspective. Hell, I can't stand the whole judging music by its complexity/originality thing. Music is feeling. I just don't see much of that in the new stuff.

Release_Me wrote:

stupidmop wrote:I've got nothing against catchy, in fact the only part if LB I like is the chorus. But if you can't hear a difference between these songs and ten/vs I don't know what to tell you. They were catchy without being bland or inane or whatever. And its not just that the songs were agressive or angry or whatever, breath exudes more joyful abandon than any of backspacer, and I find evenflow downright danceable. You strip the vocals off it and its still danceable.

I don't even know how this newer stuff is more commercial like everyone keeps saying, what audience is this rock-lite stuff aimed towards? I don't know anything about charts but if I'm thinking of the most popular rock musicians/ bands right now I've got qotsa, arctic monkeys and like jack while or something.

The difference is predominantly Ed. The songwriting style on the LB rockers is not dissimilar to some of the biggest hits on Ten or Vs. Ed just isn't angsty anymore. That changes the overall mood and feel of the songs. My point is exactly what you said. Evenflow is just as danceable as LTRP or Getaway. What makes it so much better? Young Ed.