Red Mosquito

I'm talking No Code-Riot Act basically, but Yield is a bit of an outlier in that is does have songs which focus a lot on melody (at least the ones I like/love).

harmless wrote:Because song craft, if it's conscious enough, can work to achieve those feelings and emotions. You don't just accidentally come up with a song with feeling... not often, anyway.

I'm not saying craft don't count per se, I'm saying that when two sets of songs, in the way they sound, express very different emotions, I don't see the point of saying the songwriting is similar. Yes, they're also using guitars and drums and overall fall under the rock umbrella BUT at the end of the day they end up being very different vehicles for emotions and that's going to result in very different reactions from the listener, regardless of whether both sets of songs have in common the use of verses and choruses and melodies.

Heathen wrote:

harmless wrote:Because song craft, if it's conscious enough, can work to achieve those feelings and emotions. You don't just accidentally come up with a song with feeling... not often, anyway.

I'm not saying craft don't count per se, I'm saying that when two sets of songs, in the way they sound, express very different emotions, I don't see the point of saying the songwriting is similar. Yes, they're also using guitars and drums and overall fall under the rock umbrella BUT at the end of the day they end up being very different vehicles for emotions and that's going to result in very different reactions from the listener, regardless of whether both sets of songs have in common the use of verses and choruses and melodies.

Oh, right, yes and I totally agree. There's just *something* that makes these songs not like the old stuff; even if they're consciously trying to write the old stuff, they won't.

Long time lurker and I use to post here back in the day before having to resurrect my old username.

From this standpoint, 'Getaway' is the best song this group has done in years. They sound young, vibrant, and from these ears, it's one helluva catchy tune. Based on the collection of songs that have leaked, this has the potential to be a really, really good album.

Well, I finally "got" Getaway. Wow that song is fucking intense. "Now make your getaway, hey!" at 2:14, where he goes up an octave, just kicks the song into overdrive. I love little stuff like that. Especially when it doesn't feel forced (like the laugh in Life Wasted or do some degree the breath at the end of The End).

HardTI wrote:Well, I finally "got" Getaway. Wow that song is fucking intense. "Now make your getaway, hey!" at 2:14, where he goes up an octave, just kicks the song into overdrive. I love little stuff like that. Especially when it doesn't feel forced (like the laugh in Life Wasted or do some degree the breath at the end of The End).

That part really bugs me and i don't know why.

stupidmop wrote:

HardTI wrote:Well, I finally "got" Getaway. Wow that song is fucking intense. "Now make your getaway, hey!" at 2:14, where he goes up an octave, just kicks the song into overdrive. I love little stuff like that. Especially when it doesn't feel forced (like the laugh in Life Wasted or do some degree the breath at the end of The End).

That part really bugs me and i don't know why.

haha I get why it would. It's kind of shrill and I usually hate that sound. It just happens to work for me here (really fucking well, actually).

harmless wrote:Because song craft, if it's conscious enough, can work to achieve those feelings and emotions. You don't just accidentally come up with a song with feeling... not often, anyway.

Actually more often than not it is the way a song happens.

If you try and sit down and write something, 90% of the time you come up with nothing.

Django Butterworth wrote:

harmless wrote:Because song craft, if it's conscious enough, can work to achieve those feelings and emotions. You don't just accidentally come up with a song with feeling... not often, anyway.

Actually more often than not it is the way a song happens.

If you try and sit down and write something, 90% of the time you come up with nothing.

You have to have the initial spark of inspiration, sure, I'm not denying that. But a song doesn't really just fall into your lap. If it does, you get Backspacer.

But I'm not a songwriter, I'm a poet, so...

harmless wrote:

Django Butterworth wrote:

harmless wrote:Because song craft, if it's conscious enough, can work to achieve those feelings and emotions. You don't just accidentally come up with a song with feeling... not often, anyway.

Actually more often than not it is the way a song happens.

If you try and sit down and write something, 90% of the time you come up with nothing.

You have to have the initial spark of inspiration, sure, I'm not denying that. But a song doesn't really just fall into your lap. If it does, you get Backspacer.

I think we have to give Backspacer more credit than that even if some of us (myself included) are not big fans of it. I still would like to think that most elements of that record were a conscious decision as opposed to just lazy song writing.

HardTI wrote:

harmless wrote:

Django Butterworth wrote:

harmless wrote:Because song craft, if it's conscious enough, can work to achieve those feelings and emotions. You don't just accidentally come up with a song with feeling... not often, anyway.

Actually more often than not it is the way a song happens.

If you try and sit down and write something, 90% of the time you come up with nothing.

You have to have the initial spark of inspiration, sure, I'm not denying that. But a song doesn't really just fall into your lap. If it does, you get Backspacer.

I think we have to give Backspacer more credit than that even if some of us (myself included) are not big fans of it. I still would like to think that most elements of that record were a conscious decision as opposed to just lazy song writing.

Oh I agree, there was intention. I just think that the deliberate intention was to have fewer intentions, throw it all into a pot and see what came out, but not to spend much time on it. That seems to have been a very conscious decision for the band, and something they hadn't done before.

Songwriting is a hard process to describe, for me anyways. There are a lot of times where it does feel like it just falls in your lap. You have no idea where it comes from, but it just comes out. You may have to tweak pieces of it, but many times you'll just be playing along, something sounds good and you stop and focus on it. In my experience, the miore you try to actually write, the worse it gets.

And I am not sure where anyone gets lazy songwriting from Backspacer...

I don't think I've used the word "lazy", as I find the word itself lazy.

Guys I cant agree with any of this. This album is not poppy these guys have just moved on from what thet were like all of us. They were in there 20s when the started i would hope there feelings have changed by now. The music is very well written. Poppy would be like if they were Nickelback and Eddie couldnt write a lyric if his life depended on it.they could be singing about nonsense with no real message at all. But to me not much has changed.They all are doing what they love to do and doing it very well. Its not like its that catchy really. Its pearl jam thats how i see it. Ive always gotten there songs stuck in my head, this album will be no different. Pearl Jams sticking to there sound and there word. Could be so much worse. Pearl jam could have broken up years ago, no more amazing concerts, no more waiting for albums, or they could of went right to shit, eddies words could be about partying, or so many other ridiculous things and the band could of just lost there touch like so many others. Im really liking this album so far and think theres more to come.

People need to stop equating "poppy" with "bad" just because they're embarrassed by the word "pop". That's juvenile. When I say "poppy" I don't mean Britney Spears, I mean something with a generally broader, more commercial appeal. Do you think "pop music" only started when they invented computers? The Beatles were a pop band.

harmless wrote:People need to stop equating "poppy" with "bad" just because they're embarrassed by the word "pop". That's juvenile. When I say "poppy" I don't mean Britney Spears, I mean something with a generally broader, more commercial appeal. Do you think "pop music" only started when they invented computers? The Beatles were a pop band.

YES.

harmless wrote:People need to stop equating "poppy" with "bad" just because they're embarrassed by the word "pop". That's juvenile. When I say "poppy" I don't mean Britney Spears, I mean something with a generally broader, more commercial appeal. Do you think "pop music" only started when they invented computers? The Beatles were a pop band.

"Toxic" is a cracker of a song.

Also, I think you've read complaints into my posts and I have no idea why. I love these songs.

Toxic is all right in my book.