Red Mosquito

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:In my experience living in rural areas and urban areas from Bumfuck, Mississippi to Los Angeles, California and beyond, I don't see much difference in terms of who is more likely victim of echo chambers.

Then you're not paying attention.

I'm team Burt on this one. The blue echo chambers of MA/NYC/Portland, OR were just as bad as the red echo chambers of rural WA, ID, and OR. The only real difference I can see is how those echo chambers are created: in urban areas it's around lattes and yoga classes, in rural areas it's around monolithic radio stations and Fox News.

Then I'll try to be more... equitable.

Our experiences are vastly different.

BurtReynolds wrote:But please, Durden, tell me about your diverse circle of friends in the Broadway theater set and its wide range of political beliefs. i'm sure it puts those yokels in Bismarck to shame.

Thank you for further proving my point.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:In my experience living in rural areas and urban areas from Bumfuck, Mississippi to Los Angeles, California and beyond, I don't see much difference in terms of who is more likely victim of echo chambers.

Then you're not paying attention.

I'm team Burt on this one. The blue echo chambers of MA/NYC/Portland, OR were just as bad as the red echo chambers of rural WA, ID, and OR. The only real difference I can see is how those echo chambers are created: in urban areas it's around lattes and yoga classes, in rural areas it's around monolithic radio stations and Fox News.

Then I'll try to be more... equitable.

Our experiences are vastly different.

You're a mod and I'm not, is that what you're getting at?

wat

Power corrupts absolutely

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:In my experience living in rural areas and urban areas from Bumfuck, Mississippi to Los Angeles, California and beyond, I don't see much difference in terms of who is more likely victim of echo chambers.

Then you're not paying attention.

I'm team Burt on this one. The blue echo chambers of MA/NYC/Portland, OR were just as bad as the red echo chambers of rural WA, ID, and OR. The only real difference I can see is how those echo chambers are created: in urban areas it's around lattes and yoga classes, in rural areas it's around monolithic radio stations and Fox News.

Then I'll try to be more... equitable.

Our experiences are vastly different.

You're a mod and I'm not, is that what you're getting at?

wat

You are drunk on power.

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:In my experience living in rural areas and urban areas from Bumfuck, Mississippi to Los Angeles, California and beyond, I don't see much difference in terms of who is more likely victim of echo chambers.

Then you're not paying attention.

I'm team Burt on this one. The blue echo chambers of MA/NYC/Portland, OR were just as bad as the red echo chambers of rural WA, ID, and OR. The only real difference I can see is how those echo chambers are created: in urban areas it's around lattes and yoga classes, in rural areas it's around monolithic radio stations and Fox News.

most of the echo in Portland is the antithesis of how I feel and it does a lot to push me away from them. the same can be said of the rural areas in OR/WA that I've been in. I mean, the fuckers are flying rebel flags proudly and I'm like this isn't (and wasn't!) the south so wtf. the same is true in Portland with their stupid Cascadia flags. Not really a real thing but they sure want it to be.

My hometown voted for Hillary 48-47. The town I grew up in (next town over) voted Trump 48-47. And it seems to me like the echo chambers being discussed here are very much present here in Southern New England. Doesn't seem to me to be a left/right issue, but rather just a people issue.

Also:

PHATJ wrote:

The "large dense populations..." argument isn't necessarily a bad argument, but the logic works both ways, obviously. The minority of people in sparsely populated states have disproportionate power in the Senate. If Democrats had structural advantages in both the Senate and Electoral College, I have a real hard time believing that Republicans wouldn't be up in arms about it. Dems will debate these issues forever, but the GOP would have found a way to change the rules by now.

PHATJ wrote:

Clinton won the popular vote in 2016 by 2.8 million votes, nearly twice the margin suggested here.

McP and I both made posts in the Election 2020 thread (towards the bottom of page 124) this morning in regards to the studies and research you've looked at that back up some of the claims you make about Trump's popularity and approval. I know there's been a lot of crosstalk in the threads today, but care to comment when you get a chance?

Rob wrote:If Democrats had structural advantages in both the Senate and Electoral College, I have a real hard time believing that Republicans wouldn't be up in arms about it.

This has indeed happened in the past.

It's an interesting question about urban/rural echo chambers, but I think the internet and cell phones increasingly make it a moot point. The difference between how urbanites and local yokels get their information is shrinking (though the "where" differs wildly).

I think you could make a few arguments why an urban area would be more susceptible to echo chambers than rural ones:

- City dwellers are inundated with messaging to a far greater degree than rural people. And surprise surprise, the messaging is almost uniformly left wing (by American standards), and the voting habits reflect that.

- It's a lot more difficult for rural right wing voters to avoid leftist ideology in entertainment and media than vice versa.

- So called "diversity" in cities actually creates homogeneity with social codes and etiquette, not diversity of opinions, and it's necessary to follow them in order for to survive there. LA doesn't look like a million things at once. It looks like a featureless, sprawling urban nightmare, probably in part because its necessary in order for so many groups to live together without going mad. It's shocking how little character it actually has considering it's the cultural capital of the country.

- Industrial hubs create bubbles, they don't dismantle them. No one is going to fire you from the Family Dollar in Alabama for supporting Obama, and if they do, you can just go work at McDonald's or the oil field. A shit job is a shit job. The same can't be said in a professional urban setting for Trump supporters. Admittedly, I'm mostly drawing experience from the entertainment industry, which is a pretty extreme example of an industry with ideological conformity, but it seems the same in tech, education, etc. The pressure to conform is greater because more money is at stake.

- It was once true that people in rural communities had a lot more pressure to conform than in cities, but I think with rural community ties being increasingly dismantled by corporations/modernity/capitalism, and with less need to rely on your neighbors for survival, that's no longer the case. In fact, it seems to create more tolerance for quirkiness to a degree.

- Contrast having an Obama bumper sticker on your car in Hattiesburg MS with wearing a MAGA hat in Portland, OR.

Simple Torture wrote:McP and I both made posts in the Election 2020 thread (towards the bottom of page 124) this morning in regards to the studies and research you've looked at that back up some of the claims you make about Trump's popularity and approval. I know there's been a lot of crosstalk in the threads today, but care to comment when you get a chance?

He meant geographic popularity, presumably. Those people in high density urban areas don't count.

- It was once true that people in rural communities had a lot more pressure to conform than in cities, but I think with rural community ties being increasingly dismantled by corporations/modernity/capitalism, and with less need to rely on your neighbors for survival, that's no longer the case. In fact, it seems to create more tolerance for quirkiness to a degree.

It used to be a cliche that the odd/ostracized/non-conformists/freaks etc left their small towns and went to cities because they weren't accepted in their hometown or for similar reasons.

Is the opposite happening? Or do you think it will start to happen? I.E. people moving away from cities because they want diversity of thought/culture.

I'm not asking about people moving for economic/education reasons - although that might be too essential a variable to exclude.

I'm definitely on team "everywhere is susceptible to echo chambers".

Captain Termite wrote:

- It was once true that people in rural communities had a lot more pressure to conform than in cities, but I think with rural community ties being increasingly dismantled by corporations/modernity/capitalism, and with less need to rely on your neighbors for survival, that's no longer the case. In fact, it seems to create more tolerance for quirkiness to a degree.

It used to be a cliche that the odd/ostracized/non-conformists/freaks etc left their small towns and went to cities because they weren't accepted in their hometown or for similar reasons.

Is the opposite happening? Or do you think it will start to happen? I.E. people moving away from cities because they want diversity of thought/culture.

I'm not asking about people moving for economic/education reasons - although that might be too essential a variable to exclude.

It might happen because people want the freedom to exercise their own culture or beliefs, not really to experience more diversity. But increased diversity would be the result.

But yeah I think economic considerations outweigh that for most people so I don't see that happening any time soon.

Green Habit wrote:I'm definitely on team "everywhere is susceptible to echo chambers".

Totally. I hope that I said earlier didn't imply I felt otherwise.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Green Habit wrote:I'm definitely on team "everywhere is susceptible to echo chambers".

Totally. I hope that I said earlier didn't imply I felt otherwise.

Same.

bune wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:In my experience living in rural areas and urban areas from Bumfuck, Mississippi to Los Angeles, California and beyond, I don't see much difference in terms of who is more likely victim of echo chambers.

Then you're not paying attention.

I'm team Burt on this one. The blue echo chambers of MA/NYC/Portland, OR were just as bad as the red echo chambers of rural WA, ID, and OR. The only real difference I can see is how those echo chambers are created: in urban areas it's around lattes and yoga classes, in rural areas it's around monolithic radio stations and Fox News.

most of the echo in Portland is the antithesis of how I feel and it does a lot to push me away from them. the same can be said of the rural areas in OR/WA that I've been in. I mean, the fuckers are flying rebel flags proudly and I'm like this isn't (and wasn't!) the south so wtf. the same is true in Portland with their stupid Cascadia flags. Not really a real thing but they sure want it to be.

That was bizarre to see when I moved up here. I thought I took a wrong turn and ended up back at home for a second.

The rural/urban divide seems especially pronounced here.

Weird, I've personally found it quite rare to find Confederate flags in the Northwest, even in the rural areas. The family of my best friend in school, however, who were from Georgia, did have Confederate flags inside their house. They were actually a legit case of "heritage not hate", though.